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Armed Vs Disarmed

Added on July 16th, 2008 by | Report Post
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Armed Vs Disarmed



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    Corinth

    Lets see. in most of western europe i think anyone admitting to having a loaded handgun in their home would be seen as paranoid and weird people.

    If someone came armed to my house to steal from me, i’d let them do it and report it to the police. Nothing material i own is worth risking my life by going into a gunfight to protect.

    I have to say im happy to live in a country were me and my family can feel 99,99% safe without owning a gun, and were guns are rare for both criminals and ordinary people.

    Im from norway, and all men have 1 year mandatory military service. So we know how to handle weapons, we’re allowed to have weapons(strict rules for how they are kept), we just choose not to.

    And i dont see how more weapons can make any country safer. It just means more weapons are gone get in the wrong hands.

    Long post, have discussed this with americans before, know you disagree with me… but i can’t get over how obsessed many of you are with keeping weapons and your illusion that it makes you safe.

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    DasMaus

    Corinth,

    I’m truly glad that Norway is the way it is. You all do have a great mindset when it comes to social/civic responsibility. In American however owning a gun for self-defense (I’m not talking about hunting or competive shooting) is a necessary option. We have created a criminal society (and the availability of guns has nothing to do with that, it would be knives, lead pipes, toasters, whatever) and some people want to be able to protect their family.

    And although it has only a little to do with the discussion, Do you think that the German invasion and subsequent occupation of Norway on in 1940 would have happened if the citizens of Norway had been better armed? True, armed resistance would have resulted in a much greater loss of life but liberty is pretty important to most Americans.

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    Corinth

    So the 3 million norwegians who were one of the poorest countries in europe(back before the oil) should have stood against the “might” of the nazi warmachine? Ever had to face an enemy you cant outman and outgun?

    A lot of norwegians fought against the germans during the second world war(with sabotage and guerilla tactics) and after that war the mandatory military service for norwegians was implemented to be better prepared next time.

    Oh and I think liberty and democracy is just as important for us as it is for you. If im not mistaken it was invented in Greece and developed in Rome, france, and later america?

    And talking about liberty, atleast you have to go over 1000 years back in time to find slaves kept in norway
    (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_slavery)

    But yeah, your country is probably alot more violent than mine and if i lived in similar surroundings maybe i would have a different view. But i think one should strive to get ones country so safe that ordinary people keeping guns are no longer needed. And in my opinion that is achieved through social reforms to get rid of poverty and better education for everyone.

    long post again ><

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    DasMaus

    History is just something that happened in the past and should be learned from. Norway learned from WW2. Different situation to be sure, Norway was outmatched by Germany and you did what you had to do to survive. Your tactics matched your resources. That’s one of the reasons I’m glad that a lot of Americans have firearms, our population, geography and the amount of pre-existing firepower would give us a head start if not actually deter an invasion (which is extremely unlikely in the first place but nobody can tell the future and it never hurts to be prepared)

    As for better education and eradicating poverty, yeah it would be nice but that type of social reform is going to be a long and painful process but definitely something worth working towards.

    Bringing up the slavery issue is a cheap shot. We had slaves because that’s the way things were done back then in agrarian societies (especially when dealing with one the size of the US). I’m not saying it was fair or right, just that it happened. If anything, that experience has fueled the love for liberty that most Americans feel.

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    Phyreblade


    We will never have to face an enemy we cannot outgun for the very reasons you are taking issue with. We love our guns. And we have lots of them… LOL

    But you know, the other thing is, guns are so much a part of our culture for so many of us, it’s more like a hobby. Yes, some need them for self defense, but more than that, they are for sport, and and can even help teach responsibility as well. It is all about how and what you are taught a gun is supposed to be.

    It’s no different than stamp collecting (though you’d be hard pressed to kill someone with a stamp). There is so much history, tradition, and engineering in firearms, that for me, at least, there is so much more to a gun than the fact that it can be used to kill someone.

    When people like MrDooves see a gun, all they see is a weapon for killing. They forget that guns have played an equal role in both liberation as well as oppression. They are used to protect as well as to oppress. For some reason, they choose only to see the negative.

    And then they accuse anyone who sees otherwise of living in fear, regardless of why they have chosen to own a gun. The truth is, the gun control lobbyists are also living in fear… of a straw man. It’s not how many guns or the gun laws that needs changing, it’s the people that need changing.

    Guns may ostensibly seem like an easy and obvious target, but even if all guns were to be made illegal, it would not solve the real problem. it would, at best, be band-aid over a bigger, and much more important problem.

    Our culture breeds jacked up, hyper aggressive, self serving psychopaths, and poor, ignorant, desperate people who don’t realize that violence is not the only way to survive when the going gets rough.

    Your point about education, social reform and poverty eradication is well taken. I agree wholeheartedly. If all the gun control lobbyists would exert the same amount of much energy towards these goals, we might actually make a dent in it…

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    MrDooves

    These threads always seem to separate the Americans from everybody else. Doesn’t that fact alone sorta point out the true problem?

    I’ve met a lot of Americans. I’ve spent time in the U.S. and Generally, you’re all good normal people. But there is some deep seeded social paradigms that your culture has rooted into you. It changes the very blocks you were built with.
    Certainly not everyone, and not everywhere in the states, but it seems fairly wide spread.

    No one else can understand that. I would never choose to live in the U.S. but I have an outside perspective. I can see the inherent problem from here and it scares me. I would expect that someone currently living there would be able to see it too and simply leave, But perhaps having lived within the culture all your lives, it just seems normal. Its not. Advocating more guns as a solution to guns is perverse. Its the worst way of attacking the issue, but perhaps it’s just too far gone? Perhaps there is no way to reverse the damage? Whats worse, it doesn’t seem that Americans want to do anything to fix it. It gets worse and worse as the layers build.

    Imagine a pet owner, that instead of changing the newspaper lining the kennel, they just put more newspaper over the old newspaper. Sure, you cover up the problem for a bit, but eventually your dog is standing on months worth of shit.

    I do believe there is a safe way to own and operate a gun. I’m not opposed to the idea of guns, I’m opposed to the ease in which people can obtain them. Make the licensing process rigorous and difficult. Have an intensive month long course of use and safety. Do a background security check and psychological evaluation. Make it impossible to receive a firearm through any other means, and that would be a spectacular start in securing our peace of mind.

    Currently, every Tom, Dick and Harry has a gun down there, and they just walked into a store and bought it. THAT’S what scares me. Not guns… the people who own them.

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    WaltherKid

    FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER!

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