“Ground Zero” Mosque: Rhetoric vs. Reality

Rhetoric versus Reality.jpg (586 KB)

The Rhetoric would make you believe that they want to build a “giant,” “massive,” “mega-” mosque “at,” “on,” or “overlooking” Ground Zero…The Reality is that they want to build a relatively modest mid-rise building that would be smaller than most of the buildings on its block, including the one directly across from it (which would completely block its view of — and from — ground zero), and would be dwarfed by most other buildings in the area. It’s also on the third block away, which may seem close, but if we put a three-block buffer around the WTC site, it would cover almost half of Lower Manhattan. This building is also on a narrow, one-way, one-lane side street that many people wouldn’t notice unless they had business there. Are we really discussing the curtailing of Americans’ First Amendment rights over this?

This illustration needs to be out there, because so many of the words have painted such an inaccurate picture.

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    100 Responses to “Ground Zero” Mosque: Rhetoric vs. Reality

      • I’m American and I have to agree with that.

        Reply

      • As an American who served his country proudly, and lost quite a bit of blood in the process, I also agree with this statement.
        When I enlisted, and re-enlisted twice more I took an oath to defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies both foreign and domestic.

        Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

        Just because some whack jobs who belonged to a Muslim death cult killed thousands of Americans (some of which were Muslim I might add) on September 11, 2001, does not give anyone the right to bar them from practicing their religion.

        It’s bullshit that people think the Constitution and laws we follow in the USA only apply when people want them too.

        I have been to Iraq twice, witnessed first hand the amount of hate and destruction Muslim people can inflict on one another. But I have also witnessed a great many peaceful people, kind people and forgiving people who were both happy and grateful that the US and Coalition forces were in their country.

        SGT (ret) Fountaine
        1-66 AR BN, 4th ID
        Combat Wounded in 2006
        Received a Purple Heart as well as two ARCOM’s with V devices for valorous actions under enemy fire on two different deployments. Do not doubt my patriotism.

        Reply

    1. it’s soooo very fucking stupid. google map search “mosque manhattan NY” to see the DOZEN or so mosques near ground zero.

      it wouldnt be a big fucking deal if FOXnews would just STFU about it. goddam, let people worship as they choose

      Reply

    2. “This is like getting pissed off about a church being built near the Virginia Tech Campus because Cho Seung-Hui was Christian and compared himself to Jesus Christ. (…) Christianity hasn’t killed anyone just like Islam hasn’t killed anyone. A religion cannot kill people, only people can kill people, now you can say that the religion motivated them to do so and probably in a lot of instances you’re right but does that make the religion culpable does that make an idea culpable. What you’re saying is tantamount to saying that individuals don’t matter. That the choices that you make are not your own, you can always blame it on someone else, you can always blame it on your religion if you want to.”

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      • Cho Seung-Hui was an upstanding, perfect example of a modern christian – unless you consider Christianity to about following the words and example of Jesus. Similar could be said about those sexually deprived losers that flew planes into buildings a decade ago. They were Muslim extremists, which mean for them the Koran goes out the window and they just listen to the clerics. Wow, Fake christianily and fake islam really have a lot in common!

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    3. Athiests and Agnostics never cause this kind of problem.
      Just sayin`.

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    4. Only if I can stand outside with a picture of Mohamed without getting my throat slit in my sleep.

      Which will never happen. So, if they will not respect my 1st amendment right, then they can go fuck themselves back to the holy land and fight over that piece of sand.

      Reply

      • But that’s not how it works is it, either you believe the same laws apply to everyone or you don’t believe in them at all. What you’re saying is that Muslims should be deported for thought crime. You know which country has laws like that? Iran. Iranians wish they had as non discriminatory laws as America and you want to become more like them?

        I honestly wish they would rather build a school instead, though they bought the building legally and are perfectly within their rights. I don’t understand how you think that is worth to violate the very principles so many Americans are proud of and fight for overseas.

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        • Wrong. I would figure you would misinterpret anything I say.

          I will agree that religious freedom is sacred here. I do not agree that I should be censored because I offend them and their pedo-bear god. I think buddy Jesus is funny as shit. I also think turban-bomb-mohamed is funny as shit. One gets laughs the other gets you decapitated and your family threatened. Muslims need to grow the fuck up and get over their zealotry.

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          • They haven’t passed a law that keeps you from offending their god but you want to modify a law so that they get deported for something they haven’t done yet. What have I misinterpreted? How many American families were decapitated by Muslims? This is something radical Muslims do almost exclusively to other Muslims in the Middle East because they have shitty laws that let them get away with it. Laws you want to mimic. If this is not what you think, say so, don’t tell me what is already known about fundamentalists.

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          • And you propose that we teach them that lesson the same way they teach their lessons? Where does that get anyone…anywhere?
            I’d be willing to take a pic of myself standing outside my house w/ a pic of Mohammad and post it. I don’t expect any throat slitting to occur.

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      • They don’t like people putting a face to their imaginary friends. But yeah I have a CWP ill gladly stand close to you while you do that.

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      • Um… Drunkin – you do know that “First Amendment rights” only applies to government censorship, right? The First Amendment doesn’t mean that you can say anything you want with no repercussions – only that the government can’t criminalize your speech, within certain limitations – like your speech endangering others, or being obscene.

        If you blab your employer’s internal documents and get caught, you can’t claim the First Amendment allows you to and so not get fired. If you post a girl’s naked photos on Main Street, “First Amendment rights” won’t keep her brother from punching you in the nose.

        Now getting your throat slit is illegal, so your next-of-kin may have some recourse if the evil Muslims come for you in the dark of night. However, you may want to mention to your defendors that they probably shouldn’t spend *too* much time yammering about a violation of your “First Amendment rights”.

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        • Oh dude, I’m not worried, I live in South Louisiana where they are still fighting the civil war. I’m really not worried about some, how did you put it, evil muslim coming for me in the dark of the night. Radical islam doesn’t stand a chance in the swamp, and why would it? It’s a fucking swamp.

          Reply

      • So…we act like them til they stop acting like them and we no longer have to act like them and can act like us again?

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    5. Refusing to build a mosque near ground zero follows the same logic as refusing to build gas-stations near the gulf of mexico.

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    6. The right keeps trying to use the “In memory of the troops” rhetoric… Our Troops are fight to defend the Constitution and those rights guaranteed by the amendments or the bill of rights. So to say this is an affront to them is an outright lie… because if those rights can be taken away from any citizen of the United States of America because it might be unpopular… What are they fighting for?

      I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice.

      Reply

    7. Ok, not taking sides here… i have a question.

      IF it is built…. will someone try to blow it up, and if so how soon.

      I only ask as I see mosque bombings in the news every month. Albeit not in the states, but this particular site has attracted ALOT of attention.
      If construction goes forward, I believe there will be people who’s new goal in their life is to tear it down. Whether or not for the right reason, it’s going to be on peoples minds and at the very least will probably require added security.

      Reply

    8. Countless Americans suffered greatly and sacrificed their lives for our freedom. It is our patriotic obligation to maintain that freedom.
      We also have the same freedom to depict statues next to that Mosque, of Muhammad, Jesus, Buddha, Jehovah, and others all wrestling for our hearts and minds.

      Reply

    9. by the way guys…

      Over 50 percent of NYCers don’t want it there.

      68 percent disagree nation wide.

      So its not gonna happen anyway.

      Which makes sense becauuuuuuse:

      Regardless of your personal opinion we are all simply observers. The people who will be required to build and defend this mosque will be union members, police, and NYC firefighters.
      Do you really think the same guys that had to run for their lives out of the two towers will be anxious to do an extra special good job on a mosque celebrating the religion their friends were killed in the name of?

      Reply

      • I’d like to know the source of your statistics, and while you attempt to fabricate some, I’ll ask you the question I asked earlier….

        What about all the other mosque’s already on Manhattan island? What about the mosque FIVE BLOCKS AWAY from the World Trace Center site RIGHT NOW? Should they be locking down and expecting to get bombed?

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        • www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2010/08/16/democrats_may_pay_political_price_for_obamas_words_on_nyc_mosque/

          There ya go, sporto. No bullshit needed. I said no bullshit needed. Why are you bullshitting?

          The existing Mosque 5 blocks away? Its not a 100 million dollar slap in the face. Its not a new build. Your argument would nest near valid if anyone were asking them to move that particular Mosque. Which btw since I provided my source with actual facts would you mind showing yours?

          “Fifty-three percent of registered New York City voters opposed the building of the Islamic center and mosque at the site and 34 percent supported its development, according to a Marist College poll conducted July 28 to Aug. 5.

          Nationally, 68 percent of Americans said they opposed building the mosque two blocks from the target of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, in an Aug. 6-10 poll conducted for CNN.”

          Reply

          • My source is also easily provided, no bullshit needed….i said no bullshit needed….why are you bullshitting……..OH WAIT….that’s just your rhetorical bullshit back atcha! With regard to my source, it’s easily seen on Google maps. It just requires a click from you, and the caring to do so.

            Reply

      • None of which matters. We don’t vote yeah or nay on every decision. Our constitution requires us not to discriminate or infringe upon any religion. It’s not up for debate.

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    10. It’s not about denying rights, it’s about denying EXTREMELY POOR judgement. The builders are basically saying, “we’re going to build here because we can, forget the effects on those emotionally tied to 9/11.”

      Defiantly building a mid-rise mosque (yes it’s a mosque, plans call for prayer and services to be carried on inside) 3 NYC blocks from the site where your religious extremists murdered people is so tasteless and tactless, you don’t need rhetoric to get people upset.

      Just because you have a right to do something, doesn’t mean you should do it.

      Reply

      • How far away from the trade center would be far enough? 10 blocks? Off of Manhattan? Its just election year bullshit. The far right can’t scare people over blacks or gays anymore, Mexicans aren’t frightening enough, but Muslims! That’ll keep the rednecks voting red!

        Reply

        • You’re the only one scared you fucking idiot.

          Other people are just sensible and pissed off.

          Maybe if you weren’t just watching the world from your sad little town you wouldn’t act like such a fucking tool all the time.

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          • Unfortunately, I think fracked is right. It’s political bullshit that is meaningless. The politicians have no say. 1st amendment guarantees their right to build a mosque there. They’re making an issue where none exists.

            As a New Yorker, I think it much more shameful to try to sidestep the 1st amendment while having built nothing at ground zero yet…all based on emotional fear and racism.

            Ron Paul on the issue:
            “…The debate should have provided the conservative defenders of property rights with a perfect example of how the right to own property also protects the 1st Amendment rights of assembly and religion by supporting the building of the mosque.

            Instead, we hear lip service given to the property rights position while demanding that the need to be “sensitive” requires an all-out assault on the building of a mosque, several blocks from “ground zero.”

            Just think of what might (not) have happened if the whole issue had been ignored and the national debate stuck with war, peace, and prosperity. There certainly would have been a lot less emotionalism on both sides. The fact that so much attention has been given the mosque debate, raises the question of just why and driven by whom?

            In my opinion it has come from the neo-conservatives who demand continual war in the Middle East and Central Asia and are compelled to constantly justify it….
            www.ronpaul.com/2010-08-20/ron-paul-sunshine-patriots-stop-your-demagogy-about-the-nyc-mosque/

            Reply

    11. This is a stupid fucking argument carried on by dumb fucking xenophobes. Why can’t we get this pissed off at wall street for sharing hundreds of billions of TARP money with their foreign branches? Why can’t we get pissed off at the states for hording the stimulus money? Why can’t we get pissed about the unemployment numbers instead of calling the unemployed shiftless bastards? Are we cool with BP again? Are with OK with the timeline just getting pushed back for withdraw from Afghanistan?

      No, we have to get pissed off and fight with each other because some Muslims want to build a pool, coffee shop, and a praying area in an old Burlington coat factory that’s close to ground zero WHERE SHIT IS NOT CURRENTLY EVEN BEING BUILT!

      Reply

    12. Right. So the if the logic is:
      All Muslims are terrorists.
      then-
      All Baptists are homophobic racists, many believing themselves to be the new Jesus. (Koresh, Jones, Strong)
      All Catholic priests are child molesting homosexuals.
      All…. you know, fuck it. Not gonna waste any more energy on this stupidity.

      Reply

    13. Islam responds to tolerance by making more demands;
      It responds to retreat by advancing;
      It is wisely cautious when weak, ferocious when strong;
      It recognizes no equals and makes no compromises.

      Reply

    14. The only time you will ever hear obama referring to enforcement of the US Constitution, and only because it helps further his own radical MUSLIM agenda of world submission to Islam and Sharia law.

      Reply

    15. You are all wrong, unless you agree with me, because I am the only one who is right.

      Reply

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      Reply

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