“Ground Zero” Mosque: Rhetoric vs. Reality

Rhetoric versus Reality.jpg (586 KB)

The Rhetoric would make you believe that they want to build a “giant,” “massive,” “mega-” mosque “at,” “on,” or “overlooking” Ground Zero…The Reality is that they want to build a relatively modest mid-rise building that would be smaller than most of the buildings on its block, including the one directly across from it (which would completely block its view of — and from — ground zero), and would be dwarfed by most other buildings in the area. It’s also on the third block away, which may seem close, but if we put a three-block buffer around the WTC site, it would cover almost half of Lower Manhattan. This building is also on a narrow, one-way, one-lane side street that many people wouldn’t notice unless they had business there. Are we really discussing the curtailing of Americans’ First Amendment rights over this?

This illustration needs to be out there, because so many of the words have painted such an inaccurate picture.


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    Puulaahi

    Stupid Americans.

    sleepyjoe256

    I’m American and I have to agree with that.

    Synthetics

    As an American who served his country proudly, and lost quite a bit of blood in the process, I also agree with this statement. When I enlisted, and re-enlisted twice more I took an oath to defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies both foreign and domestic. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. Just because some whack jobs… Read more »

    slakinator

    I wish I could upvote you into infinity!
    I have never seen a wounded vet and someone so dedicated to constitutional ideals say such on television or the internet. The only one’s who they let speak thus are generals and battalion commanders.

    origuy

    I feel double on that. (No double infinity jokes.)

    I think the phrase REMF is what you’re looking for there at the end.

    dieAntagonista

    You’re my hero.

    Elepski

    I would like to thank you firstly for the sacrifices…. I would also like to thank you for not forgetting that oath and what the USA really represents… This is not a war on the Muslim faith.. this is a war again a very small percentage of extremists. However, There seems to be this portion of our society that believes it is a holy war whilst tramping on the Constitution.

    natedog

    it’s soooo very fucking stupid. google map search “mosque manhattan NY” to see the DOZEN or so mosques near ground zero.

    it wouldnt be a big fucking deal if FOXnews would just STFU about it. goddam, let people worship as they choose

    Lamb

    No man… you can’t build a symbol of the religion that caused the death of those people, right there. It’s just crazy that somebody suggested it. It’s an insult for the families that lost people on 9/11. I know it’s been 9 years, but it still is shitty for all those people.

    Sorry, but if fox says the same shit, I agree with them.

    Kishi

    It’s a couple blocks away. It’s not going to be visible from ground zero. It’s not even actually a fucking mosque.

    Lamb

    Oh… I thought they wanted it ON ground zero. My last argument is void.

    dieAntagonista

    It’s like you didn’t even read the post you’re commenting on.

    Lamb

    It really is like that, isn’t it?

    dieAntagonista

    Well it’s not like I was surprised at your making judgements without sufficient information so it’s cool.

    Lamb

    Wanna dance?

    natedog

    S

    natedog

    A

    natedog

    F

    natedog

    E

    natedog

    T

    natedog

    Y

    natedog

    DANCE!

    Luke Magnifico

    FUCK YOU NATEDOG

    FUCKING FUCK YOU

    Sticky

    YOU CAN DANCE IF YOU WANT TO, YOU CAN LEAVE YOUR CARES BEHIND. BUT YOUR FRIENDS DON’T DANCE, AND IF THEY DON’T DANCE THEN THEY’RE NO FRIENDS OF MINE

    dieAntagonista

    “This is like getting pissed off about a church being built near the Virginia Tech Campus because Cho Seung-Hui was Christian and compared himself to Jesus Christ. (…) Christianity hasn’t killed anyone just like Islam hasn’t killed anyone. A religion cannot kill people, only people can kill people, now you can say that the religion motivated them to do so and probably in a lot of instances you’re right but does that make the religion culpable does that make an idea culpable. What you’re saying is tantamount to saying that individuals don’t matter. That the choices that you make are… Read more »

    Alec Dalek

    Cho Seung-Hui was an upstanding, perfect example of a modern christian – unless you consider Christianity to about following the words and example of Jesus. Similar could be said about those sexually deprived losers that flew planes into buildings a decade ago. They were Muslim extremists, which mean for them the Koran goes out the window and they just listen to the clerics. Wow, Fake christianily and fake islam really have a lot in common!

    Demon

    Athiests and Agnostics never cause this kind of problem.
    Just sayin`.

    WistfulD

    Lenin? Stalin? Mao? Need I go on?

    Lamb

    I think she meant the foot soldiers.

    Luke Magnifico

    This kind of problem. Not that kind of problem.

    Corman

    None of these people did anything ‘in the name of’ atheism or because they were atheists. They did them because they were bad people.
    Without religion you would have good people doing good things, and bad people doing bad things. It’s only with religion that you have good people doing bad things.

    Lamb

    Woo for Steven Weinberg!

    Darkhell

    Remember how religious people think, some things don’t come clear to them.

    I never heard of flocks of atheist suicide bombers >_>

    origuy

    Sounds like a Monty Python skit!

    P41N90D

    Dont forget that 200 year setback

    gx5000

    Separation of Church and State…No matter which is which…

    But the “games” will go on, for some seek power in our pain
    and confusion.

    Browncoat101

    I think people are trying to say that there are good and bad people in everything, not just religion. Religion just sometimes gives bad people a cover for their evil. If not religion, trust me, it would be something else.

    Drunkin

    Only if I can stand outside with a picture of Mohamed without getting my throat slit in my sleep.

    Which will never happen. So, if they will not respect my 1st amendment right, then they can go fuck themselves back to the holy land and fight over that piece of sand.

    TrAyVon'S GhOSt, nuCca

    Yup.

    dieAntagonista

    But that’s not how it works is it, either you believe the same laws apply to everyone or you don’t believe in them at all. What you’re saying is that Muslims should be deported for thought crime. You know which country has laws like that? Iran. Iranians wish they had as non discriminatory laws as America and you want to become more like them? I honestly wish they would rather build a school instead, though they bought the building legally and are perfectly within their rights. I don’t understand how you think that is worth to violate the very principles… Read more »

    Drunkin

    Wrong. I would figure you would misinterpret anything I say.

    I will agree that religious freedom is sacred here. I do not agree that I should be censored because I offend them and their pedo-bear god. I think buddy Jesus is funny as shit. I also think turban-bomb-mohamed is funny as shit. One gets laughs the other gets you decapitated and your family threatened. Muslims need to grow the fuck up and get over their zealotry.

    dieAntagonista

    They haven’t passed a law that keeps you from offending their god but you want to modify a law so that they get deported for something they haven’t done yet. What have I misinterpreted? How many American families were decapitated by Muslims? This is something radical Muslims do almost exclusively to other Muslims in the Middle East because they have shitty laws that let them get away with it. Laws you want to mimic. If this is not what you think, say so, don’t tell me what is already known about fundamentalists.

    Drunkin

    Nope, but I did modify a voodoo practice around here and painted a line of hogs blood at my doorstep to keep the bogey man away.

    P41N90D

    They got shitty laws cuz most of it comes from the religion itself, and most/all countries there are governed by some religious council

    nyoki

    And you propose that we teach them that lesson the same way they teach their lessons? Where does that get anyone…anywhere?
    I’d be willing to take a pic of myself standing outside my house w/ a pic of Mohammad and post it. I don’t expect any throat slitting to occur.

    Darkhell

    They don’t like people putting a face to their imaginary friends. But yeah I have a CWP ill gladly stand close to you while you do that.

    nyoki

    CWP?

    eric

    Um… Drunkin – you do know that “First Amendment rights” only applies to government censorship, right? The First Amendment doesn’t mean that you can say anything you want with no repercussions – only that the government can’t criminalize your speech, within certain limitations – like your speech endangering others, or being obscene. If you blab your employer’s internal documents and get caught, you can’t claim the First Amendment allows you to and so not get fired. If you post a girl’s naked photos on Main Street, “First Amendment rights” won’t keep her brother from punching you in the nose. Now… Read more »

    Drunkin

    Oh dude, I’m not worried, I live in South Louisiana where they are still fighting the civil war. I’m really not worried about some, how did you put it, evil muslim coming for me in the dark of the night. Radical islam doesn’t stand a chance in the swamp, and why would it? It’s a fucking swamp.

    nyoki

    So…we act like them til they stop acting like them and we no longer have to act like them and can act like us again?

    dicktard

    Refusing to build a mosque near ground zero follows the same logic as refusing to build gas-stations near the gulf of mexico.

    Luke Magnifico

    No it doesn’t, you’re a fool.

    #makecasemdsgreatagain

    shit 40,000 lololols.

    Elepski

    The right keeps trying to use the “In memory of the troops” rhetoric… Our Troops are fight to defend the Constitution and those rights guaranteed by the amendments or the bill of rights. So to say this is an affront to them is an outright lie… because if those rights can be taken away from any citizen of the United States of America because it might be unpopular… What are they fighting for? I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I… Read more »

    dieAntagonista

    Thank you, that’s what I was trying to say.

    WaltherKid

    Ok, not taking sides here… i have a question.

    IF it is built…. will someone try to blow it up, and if so how soon.

    I only ask as I see mosque bombings in the news every month. Albeit not in the states, but this particular site has attracted ALOT of attention.
    If construction goes forward, I believe there will be people who’s new goal in their life is to tear it down. Whether or not for the right reason, it’s going to be on peoples minds and at the very least will probably require added security.

    Elepski

    It would only prove that our extremists are just as bad as theirs…

    WaltherKid

    makes me think of the ol’ saying “theres one in every crowd”

    wookie_x

    “IF it is built…. will someone try to blow it up, and if so how soon.”

    What about all the other mosque’s already on Manhattan island? What about the mosque FIVE BLOCKS AWAY from the World Trace Center site RIGHT NOW? Should they be locking down and expecting to get bombed?

    bstaples

    I think there’s a difference between an already existing dinky building (which if I know my fellow NYers well, must’ve had their own share of post-9/11 problems) used as a mosque

    and

    a mid-rise construction of a mosque/educational center/protoss gateway ~5 minutes away.

    WaltherKid

    I would hope not. The media has really brought a lot of attention to this particular location. Also, when I first saw your avatar thumbnail I thought is was Chuck Norris.

    nyoki

    “Albeit not in the states…”
    That is a huge difference and it is why we consider our culture superior to theirs.

    dogsurfer

    Countless Americans suffered greatly and sacrificed their lives for our freedom. It is our patriotic obligation to maintain that freedom.
    We also have the same freedom to depict statues next to that Mosque, of Muhammad, Jesus, Buddha, Jehovah, and others all wrestling for our hearts and minds.

    #makecasemdsgreatagain

    what about tiki, you careless asshole?

    TrAyVon'S GhOSt, nuCca

    Lets actually make it a performance art piece and have them all portrayed by hot women wrestling in Jello and see who gets pissed off first.

    nyoki

    Works for me. You will give me a token for luck, won’t you?

    TrAyVon'S GhOSt, nuCca

    by the way guys… Over 50 percent of NYCers don’t want it there. 68 percent disagree nation wide. So its not gonna happen anyway. Which makes sense becauuuuuuse: Regardless of your personal opinion we are all simply observers. The people who will be required to build and defend this mosque will be union members, police, and NYC firefighters. Do you really think the same guys that had to run for their lives out of the two towers will be anxious to do an extra special good job on a mosque celebrating the religion their friends were killed in the name… Read more »

    wookie_x

    I’d like to know the source of your statistics, and while you attempt to fabricate some, I’ll ask you the question I asked earlier….

    What about all the other mosque’s already on Manhattan island? What about the mosque FIVE BLOCKS AWAY from the World Trace Center site RIGHT NOW? Should they be locking down and expecting to get bombed?

    TrAyVon'S GhOSt, nuCca

    www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2010/08/16/democrats_may_pay_political_price_for_obamas_words_on_nyc_mosque/ There ya go, sporto. No bullshit needed. I said no bullshit needed. Why are you bullshitting? The existing Mosque 5 blocks away? Its not a 100 million dollar slap in the face. Its not a new build. Your argument would nest near valid if anyone were asking them to move that particular Mosque. Which btw since I provided my source with actual facts would you mind showing yours? “Fifty-three percent of registered New York City voters opposed the building of the Islamic center and mosque at the site and 34 percent supported its development, according to a Marist College… Read more »

    wookie_x

    My source is also easily provided, no bullshit needed….i said no bullshit needed….why are you bullshitting……..OH WAIT….that’s just your rhetorical bullshit back atcha! With regard to my source, it’s easily seen on Google maps. It just requires a click from you, and the caring to do so.

    nyoki

    None of which matters. We don’t vote yeah or nay on every decision. Our constitution requires us not to discriminate or infringe upon any religion. It’s not up for debate.

    bstaples

    It’s not about denying rights, it’s about denying EXTREMELY POOR judgement. The builders are basically saying, “we’re going to build here because we can, forget the effects on those emotionally tied to 9/11.”

    Defiantly building a mid-rise mosque (yes it’s a mosque, plans call for prayer and services to be carried on inside) 3 NYC blocks from the site where your religious extremists murdered people is so tasteless and tactless, you don’t need rhetoric to get people upset.

    Just because you have a right to do something, doesn’t mean you should do it.

    fracked again

    How far away from the trade center would be far enough? 10 blocks? Off of Manhattan? Its just election year bullshit. The far right can’t scare people over blacks or gays anymore, Mexicans aren’t frightening enough, but Muslims! That’ll keep the rednecks voting red!

    TrAyVon'S GhOSt, nuCca

    You’re the only one scared you fucking idiot.

    Other people are just sensible and pissed off.

    Maybe if you weren’t just watching the world from your sad little town you wouldn’t act like such a fucking tool all the time.

    nyoki

    Unfortunately, I think fracked is right. It’s political bullshit that is meaningless. The politicians have no say. 1st amendment guarantees their right to build a mosque there. They’re making an issue where none exists. As a New Yorker, I think it much more shameful to try to sidestep the 1st amendment while having built nothing at ground zero yet…all based on emotional fear and racism. Ron Paul on the issue: “…The debate should have provided the conservative defenders of property rights with a perfect example of how the right to own property also protects the 1st Amendment rights of assembly… Read more »

    DMYTRIW WDS

    This is a stupid fucking argument carried on by dumb fucking xenophobes. Why can’t we get this pissed off at wall street for sharing hundreds of billions of TARP money with their foreign branches? Why can’t we get pissed off at the states for hording the stimulus money? Why can’t we get pissed about the unemployment numbers instead of calling the unemployed shiftless bastards? Are we cool with BP again? Are with OK with the timeline just getting pushed back for withdraw from Afghanistan? No, we have to get pissed off and fight with each other because some Muslims want… Read more »

    P41N90D

    Ya forgot one, the entire NASA space program made possible by a former SS officer

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Werner_Von_Braun

    Drunkin

    Von Braun was a Genius all things dealing with rockets. Another German descendant helped win WW2 by being lead scientist in developing atomic weapons and a College grad from Budapest gave us the modern age. I’m sure if an ex jihadist would actually develop something useful this country would use them too.

    SumoSnipe

    Right. So the if the logic is:
    All Muslims are terrorists.
    then-
    All Baptists are homophobic racists, many believing themselves to be the new Jesus. (Koresh, Jones, Strong)
    All Catholic priests are child molesting homosexuals.
    All…. you know, fuck it. Not gonna waste any more energy on this stupidity.

    TrAyVon'S GhOSt, nuCca

    Funny how the Jews seem to be getting out clean…

    origuy

    ALL rednecks (with pink icons) are Jew hating reactionaries?

    nyoki

    It’s purple, you fool.

    origuy

    Fool – no
    My monitor must be off, it looks pink on mine. Even zoomed in.

    Still – Purple? Okay I could see a redneck in purple.

    Lemurian

    www.mediaite.com/tv/greg-gutfield-to-open-a-gay-bar-next-to-ground-zero-mosque-to-cater-to-islamic-gay-men/

    Guy is opening a gay bar for Muslim men next door, welcome to New York.

    DMYTRIW WDS

    A guy from Fox News wants to open a gay bar?

    Not so surprising, really.

    Also; this will probably happen right around the time Sean Hannity gets waterboarded for the troops.

    Lemurian

    Are you saying Fox news wouldn’t troll Muslims? Certainly it is a troll, no one at Fox news is gay, NO ONE!

    origuy

    You’re trying too hard.

    origuy

    I would pay to see that.

    Could we get Rove, and Rummy to join him?

    rainman97361

    Islam responds to tolerance by making more demands;
    It responds to retreat by advancing;
    It is wisely cautious when weak, ferocious when strong;
    It recognizes no equals and makes no compromises.

    origuy

    Sounds like a lot of religions…
    And other radical groups…
    And political parties…
    And news organizations…

    Generally, generalizations are rather general.

    rainman97361

    The only time you will ever hear obama referring to enforcement of the US Constitution, and only because it helps further his own radical MUSLIM agenda of world submission to Islam and Sharia law.

    TGGeko

    Ha ha, very funny, mr troll.

    TrAyVon'S GhOSt, nuCca

    He’s already repealing his comment. Though his PR people are trying to make it not look like a flip flop.

    Basically…he kinda just burned himself.

    See the stats I posted above.

    Sorry…Obama can wait outside with Homer. No 1 termers.

    Luke Magnifico

    You are all wrong, unless you agree with me, because I am the only one who is right.

    origuy

    Unless you’re wrong.

    Luke Magnifico

    No, I’m right, I’m the one who is right.

    origuy

    Unless you’re lying about being right, in which case you would be right that you are wrong. But if you’re lying about being wrong, are you right or wrong, and what’s left?

    Don’t worry, I trust that you are lying about it.

    Luke Magnifico

    Nah

    I’m pretty sure I’m right

    And I’m even more sure that I’m right about being right.

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    HoChunk

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