Convince an Atheist

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    drevil007
    Member
    drevil007

    I’m an agnostic but this is beyond stupid. Faith is belief without proof. Asking for proof is a waste of time and pointing out the lack of proof only indicates how ignorant the one asking for proof is in regards to faith. Faith does not need proof; that is why it is called faith not fact.

    Gropegrope
    Member

    Belief without proof….?

    You mean unfounded, unsubstantiated faith.

    Belief with proof….belief with evidence…?
    That’s sound reasoning and logic.
    Quite the opposite of ignorance.

    Imagine a god who wants to punish those who think for themselves and act upon evidence.
    Nope….I don’t have faith in that kind of god.

    jeffapotimus
    Member

    Yeah, me neither. Lets make a deal, if you stop fucking assuming you understand my belief system, and stop accusing me of being a small-minded, prejudiced, ignoramus, I won’t accuse you of rebranding my ethical system and pretending you were the first to think it up, and being some sort of amoral monster who is a danger to the fabric of society.

    Because I have an open mind, I know better. Fucking try it some time.

    Gropegrope
    Member

    Why would you even mention “some sort of amoral monster”….? Unless your belief system has a habit of branding me as one. And “my ethical system”…? Your “ethical system” (or some variant of it) has developed independently in multiple cultures across the history and geography of this planet. Your “ethical system” is the evolution and codification of behaviors necessary to build a civilization and prevent is from slipping into anarchy. Not the edict from some divine sky king. Morality enforced by the threat of eternal damnation is not morality…its fear. True morality is the realization that this is the only… Read more »

    jeffapotimus
    Member

    I agree with absolutely everything you say about my ethical system. Our ethical system. Yours and mine. “Independently in multiple cultures across the history and geography of this planet.” Well said. Quite a fucking coincidence tho, huh? I like the fact that you use the word evolution, please keep in mind that it’s only the truly zealous idiots that still maintain “My grandaddy weren’t no monkey!” Now please tell me of the social evolutionary successes of all the great and ancient godless civilizations. Now, I only mention “amoral monster” for the same reason you mention “divine sky king” and “eternal… Read more »

    Gropegrope
    Member

    Wow. Your religion openly calls its god “the king of heaven” (doesn’t that mean divine sky king…?) and preaches eternal damnation. Not my words….Christian words. In my opinion: yes, complete bullshit….but still the words of your church. How can you say they aren’t when the evidence is in most of your Christian writings…? And my use of these phrases is not in any way the same thing as the assertion that atheist lack morality (whether facetious or not) Your assertion that Christians don’t literally believe these things isn’t based on the evidence. The 1992 Chatechism of the Catholic states “the… Read more »

    jeffapotimus
    Member

    “Evangelical” is not a brand, it encompasses many people of faith besides mouth-breathers and born-agains. Many moderate and reasonable people are members of a denomination that fits in the evangelical category. Hysterical morons that think they see demons at the walmart have come to exemplify the term. It’s a real fucking tragedy that they’ve given the rest of us such a bad name, but they are NOT the majority. They are just the loudest voices in Christianity right now. I will concede that the existence of “hell” may still be the official position of the Vatican as last revisited 23… Read more »

    Gropegrope
    Member

    So your threshold of proof (at least in the religious realm) is much, much, much lower than mine.
    Duh.
    Kinda the point of the thread.

    As for all the other shit you said…
    Wow.
    Just….wow.

    How does one even attempt a rational discussion with that….?

    jeffapotimus
    Member

    That’s a neat rhetorical trick, I’mma try now: Wow. I mean just… Wow…. Wow. You’re just… wow. Once again, IF IT WAS PROVABLE THAN IT WOULDN’T REQUIRE FAITH. WE WOULD USE A DIFFERENT FUCKING WORD FOR IT. I mean, c’mon. wow Now, a word on science, which we can all agree is pretty useful and cool, right? Throughout history, science has often disabused people of their silly notions about the nature of the universe. Scientists would disprove something widely held as truth, and then, after a time, we could all enjoy ridiculing people for still believing in a flat earth,… Read more »

    jeffapotimus
    Member

    It’s OK, I’m used to people feigning exasperation when I make a compelling point.

    Happens a lot, actually.

    Gropegrope
    Member

    “I want to convince my atheist friends that God exists….But they want proof.” You’ve done a lot of tap-dancing around the definition of belief without evidence. Faith you call it. OK. I don’t think I’ve actually disputed that. It’s just that I need more evidence than you do to believe. I guess I’m not capable of what you call faith. I see a much more logical and likely explanation for morality, law, even the advent of religion. And just about everything else. The fact that there are gaps in our knowledge does not necessitate we automatically need to fill that… Read more »

    jeffapotimus
    Member

    You’re right that I didn’t articulate the time-travel hypothetical well enough (and also I shouldn’t have said 10 chapters when I was only referencing the first). My point was that the Genesis story is older than written language. Older than the concept of a heliocentric universe, older than germ theory – we’re talking about people that literally thought that disease was the result of some sort of curse rather than the fact that they were shitting in their drinking water. It was passed down in a 10,000 year game of telephone until writing was invented it was recorded in more… Read more »

    Silverwolf
    Member

    jeffapotimus, I wanted to reply to your comment but there’s no reply button showing. I just want to say… I bow down to you respectfully, sir. Very well said. Now, I will proceed to offer my own insight into this matter. First of all, yes, it’s infuriating that people demand proof for a belief, which is exactly as infuriating as someone quoting scripture to prove to you that God exists. It’s a fallacious argument, in terms of the art of intellectual debate. Yes, you have every right to doubt and question something that cannot be proven, but ridiculing a hypthesis… Read more »

    RalphTheDog
    Member

    ^ TLDR
    y’all can suck my heathen balls.

    Kik Dogg
    Member

    I thought you could lick them yourself?

    Jac
    Member

    God will neber give you more than you can handle. Unless you’re a Tsunami victim or some crap like that.

    jeffapotimus
    Member

    Jesus. Aside from on the TeeVee, have any of you actually ever even seen a christian (that’s basically what we’re talking about here, right?) Or talked to one that wasn’t an ex-con, a recovering drug addict with two remaining brain cells, or holding a ‘God Hates Fags’ sign?

    Seriously, you should get out more.

    Jac
    Member

    Never, not neber. Jesus, see what he made me do?

    #makecasemdsgreatagain
    Member

    i have an opinion, it’s the correct one
    your’s wrong

    drew
    Member
    drew

    Truth requires neither witness nor proof. Belief seems require a fan club of some sort; usually a large, wealthy fan club. Also, violence. Belief, for some reason, often has a lot of violence associated with it. Truth can defend itself quite nicely.
    When was the last time someone strapped a bomb to himself because someone else called Pi a bad name? Seen any fist fights over the speed of light?
    Now, try to list all the wars fought in the name of belief.

    jeffapotimus
    Member

    I actually have seen a fist fight over the speed of light (sort of, the subject was relativity). It was kind of hilarious. And seriously, be fair. There are many wars that have been fought over non-religious ideologies, and many between those who share the same religion (and even the same pope). I’m not saying that everybody involved didn’t think that God was on their side, or that religious beliefs and inspiration was not present at the squad level, so to speak. Thats just human nature. Literally, when they find a bunch of bones buried in the ground, they look… Read more »

    notspamming
    Member

    [imgcomment image[/img]

    Animus
    Member

    Religion is amazing – it is something no one needs, yet people constantly fight over.



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