fallen soldier memorial 02

fallen soldier memorial 02

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    In before smart people & idiots bring themselves to a mutual low by arguing and flaming…


    how could you even argue about this one, i understand when people argue about politics but it doesnt seem right to argue over dead soldiers


    Left or right, intelligent or stupid, I think we can all agree that the people who fight and die for our right to argue over which one of us is right are deserving of respect.



    iCame 😀


    The Matrix: Rebooted

    “I think we can all agree that the people who fight and die for our right to argue over which one of us is right are deserving of respect.”
    I know I’m opening up a flame war here but: what (US) war in the last 60 years has been about the right to free speech?


    fucking right, reb00t. Well, the longer u americanz are at “war” the better for Israel.

    Since u invaded these dirty camel fuckers we’ve got many benefits

    So keep going….lulz



    Freedom to bomb who we want? There are dozens of other areas with dictators and gorilla rebels. It’s whose policy that matters. I’ll agree that soldiers should be honored and remembered, after all , they are on the front lines. They are the tragedies of war. But to say for freedom? Let’s not confuse the lines here. Let’s remember the reasons why we went in Iraq, WMDs, connections to 9/11, Both beeing false due to lack of evidence supporting their claims. We should all remember who sends those soldiers over seas. Not you or me but the man who was put into office. With a 30% approval rating, numbers speak for themselves.


    HAHA, those guns are wearing helmets and boots. Silly guns.


    It is sad that those soldiers are dead, there’s no refuting that, regardless of the reason that they were there in the first place, if this is even a memorial in the middle east for soldiers KIA there. “Ours is not to question why, Ours is but to do and die” Thank you for serving our country in whatever capacity it has decided to use you. I will forever remember your sacrifice.

    Gorilla: our vote has no say in who gets elected, its all a sham. the electoral college has their own agendas. Hows about you take a look at who our votes actually elect, eh?


    even better: www.gallup.com/poll/107242/Congress-Approval-Rating-Ties-Lowest-Gallup-Records.aspx
    latest version, had the wrong link the first time.


    I think i have them boots in black.


    No, it just means that Americans vote for idiots, because they themselves are in fact, idiots.

    The Matrix: Rebooted

    “No, it just means that Americans vote for idiots, because they themselves are in fact, idiots.”

    Don’t blame Americans, it’s a more fundamental problem than that. Those that seek positions of power are the least qualified to hold it. That’s been an issue since at least the time of Plato.


    Wait, I’m supposed to respect people who fight and die for a cause I detest, but is ultimately insignificant? Yeah, Saddam was going to use his duct-taped 40-year-old AKs to destroy Baltimore thanks for saving me.

    I’m sorry but these are worthless an heroes no different from whiny crybabies who listen to Iron Maiden and shoot themselves in the face, or hang themselves in their closet because they couldn’t play WII because their sister was watching TV.

    I’m sorry, but if you throw your life away over nothing, you have my pity, but not my respect.


    “The larger the mob, the harder the test. In small areas, before small electorates, a first-rate man occasionally fights his way through, carrying even the mob with him by force of his personality. But when the field is nationwide, and the fight must be waged chiefly at second and third hand, and the force of personality cannot so readily make itself felt, then all the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre — the man who can most easily adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum.

    “The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart’s desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.” (Baltimore Evening Sun, July 26, 1920)

    H. L. Mencken


    Oh, yes, and should I salute and respect the Germans in Belsen, who killed a good deal of my family? Should I respect the people who killed the Beothuk? Should I respect the Russian soldiers who displaced and decimated entire ethnicities?

    If you would fight and die for something odious, you deserve no respect, only scorn. It’s mindless “just following orders” nationalists like these (thankfully) dead fools who cause the problems in the world.

    No, reboot, the problem isn’t with the leadership, its with people like these who will follow the most odious of men without question. If they were around during the American revolution, they would have payed the Tea Taxes with a smile, and put on a Red Coat when the time came.


    May those soldiers rest in peace.


    Good thing Caio knows everything there is to know about everybody and everything in the military and the U.S. Government. We’d be lost without people like him.


    Politics aside…a sad sight.


    Caio, you’re in no position to talk about who deserves respect and who does not. The soldiers who question leadership are met harshly and disrespected more than any civilian like yourself is. Give yourself the proper outlook before you start ridiculing.


    Great quote, nyokki.

    Also, /facepalm at even this turning into an argument. I know this is the internet but I’m still flabbergasted by humans sometimes.


    Poor, poor taste to bash Americans at every chance you get. Especially under a picture like this. America FTW!


    Wait, so what you’re saying, ADiscoInfernal, is that I should look up basic ethical principles common to every religion and accepted non-religious ethical system because people who I don’t respect might not respect someone I respect?

    So, what this argument boils down to is that, if some other people are doing something you better do it to or they might not like you? Man, what a centred life you leave, ADiscoInfernal. I guess I don’t have your “if all my friends were jumping off a cliff I certainly would too!” “””””perspective””””” on life.


    Caio, you just fabricated a whole lotta bullshit. Maybe you should work for the government, eh? I hear they need another reason to go to war.

    What I’m trying to say to you is that you need to look at these things from multiple angles, especially the angles of those you choose to ridicule. You say I’m living the centered life? Have you even tried to look at anything from anyone else’s perspective? These things aren’t so clear cut that you can pass judgement so casually.

    I question everything I’m told, Caio, and I sure as hell don’t follow the pack, but at least I try to understand everyone’s outlook and reasoning, no matter how farfetched.

    You don’t respect what these people died for, fine. But at least respect that they believed in something.


    Caio, i think what most people are usually suggesting to you in these little forums is that you shut the fuck up


    @discoinferno: Everyone whose done something terrible believes in something. Pol Pot’s death squads believed in their cause. Not that I’m saying Bush is as bad as Pot (he isn’t), but believing in something, being somewhat physically fit and heading down to the recruitment office does not merit my respect.

    Do these soldiers consider all points of views? Do you realize the ratio of Dead Iraqis to Dead Americans? Who cries for them? Who respects them? Not one. If these dead soldiers had tried to see things from all points of view, as you suggest, they would quite likely still be alive. Likewise, if the Iraqis who killed them saw all points of view, etc etc etc. The fact is, people Stateside “respecting the soldiers” is what killed them. You, as a sensible person, are more responsible than the crazy arabs who pulled the trigger or suicide bombed or whatever.

    @Dyna-emo-le: I hear you like heavy metal. Here is a list of bands I’d like to recommend you they seem right up your teen angst alley:


    Caio, for somebody who preaches so much of appreciating the views of others and tolerance, you seem to have an extremely close-minded, stereotypical view of American servicemen and women.

    Do you actually know, in person, any American service members? Any that have actually engaged in combat operations in Iraq? Outside of media publications, do you have any knowledge of what’s really going on over there? Do you know any Iraqis?

    To clarify, I’m not trying to attack you. I’m asking these questions seriously.

    Know this, at least: when Saddam was removed from power, the Iraqi people got what they wanted. They were ecstatic. They were given a “clean slate,” you could almost say. For the first time in a long time, the future of Iraq is truly in the hands of the Iraqi people. This current government can be as successful as they want it to be.

    Fully respecting somebody’s point of view is not going to save your life. You can respect their view all you want, but they are still going to try to kill you in a war. I know that if our situations were reversed, I’d probably be just like the Iraqis/Iranians/insurgents I fought over there. Our situations, however, are not reversed. Therefore, the only course of action that is viable, to me, is to kill or be killed. As selfish as that sounds, that’s the truth of the matter. I’d rather not kill. I’d rather explain to them that we, as Americans, are there to help. That we’re there to help them rebuild and try to get them to stand on their own feet. But, hey, they choose not to believe it. So be it.

    The vast majority of the time I spent over there was spent trying to gain the trust of the local people by doing things like helping those who didn’t have electricity get electricity, help the sick and injured, find jobs for the people who needed them, rebuild their infrastructure, etc. In the fight against the insurgency, it’s been proven that the units who have had the most success against the insurgents are the ones that have gained the trust and support of the local people. Therefore, most soldiers are taught to appreciate the point of view of the average Iraqi. We’re not mindless killing machines. In this sort of fight, killing is only going to get you so far when it will only create more people willing to be killed.

    That being said, however, put yourself in the shoes of an American soldier. You and your buddies have done nothing but sweat and bleed for these people and help them rebuild their country. Rightfully so, since it’s partially your fault their country is like this in the first pplace. Time after time, however, your unit is repeatedly attacked in the same area. Despite all the good things you’ve done for them, they have repeatedly allowed insurgents to come into their neighborhood and lay ambushes for you.

    The Iraqi people do not exactly demand respect when, with the same hand they wave to you with, they also bury bombs with.

    I’ve had the opportunity to talk to many Iraqis, and the more educated, smarter ones appreciate America. They are actually grateful for the opportunity that their country has been given, and they hate the insurgency almost as much as the American service member does.

    Translators that are embedded with units, for instance, are usually of higher intelligence(or at least education) of your average Iraqi. They clearly want to help their country by helping the American military. Now, why would they do that if we were nothing but mindless killing machines who did nothing but destroy all that the Iraqi people love? Money? Yes, they get paid for helping us, but it’s not worth what could happen to them should the insurgents catch him. Trust me, the insurgency punishes those who help America in ways you probably wouldn’t even think of harming another human being.

    Sorry, Caio, but until you prove otherwise, you have absolutely no idea how complicated things are over there. I’ve said this before, but it’s not nearly as simple as “Country A has invaded Country B. Country B is now angry at Country A because they keep blowing things up and leaving nothing but destruction in their wake.” The blind hatred and disrespect you’ve displayed only shows, to me, that you are not nearly as open-minded as you think you are. You presume too much about a subject that too few an amount of people really know anything about.


    Yeah yeah yeah, TL:DR.


    Laff , nearly 30 flaming comments later:

    “how could you even argue about this one..”

    Luke Magnifico

    This is all retarded. None of it alters the fact that these people died because their higher-ups want to play war. Being in the military doesn’t have to be a belief, sometimes it’s just a job. And if you want to keep your job, then you do what you’re told.

    Also. Caio, I like Iron Maiden.


    we need to just GTFO of all these fucking countries around the world and our soldiers wont be dying

    we need to mind our own business

    let people in other countries figure it out for themselves through whatever means they deem necessary

    i dont fear the greasy arabs in the 3rd world countries

    the only country i fear is my own


    also, “Ours is not to question why, Ours is but to do and die” is the stupidest fucking thing i have ever heard


    Politicians decided to send them to war. They died. Big deal.
    Doesn’t make them any better than roadkill.

    I mean…if one of them saved me from muggers or killed GWB in the FACE, I might’ve gotten a “thanks” left for them, but otherwise? Nah.

    The only thing compelling people to honour dead soldiers who got KIA for no worthwhile cause is their retardedly outdated feeling of cultural obligation to do so.

    Aside from that: Does that gun come with the boots?


    stfu. Your entire culture was made possible by men and women who were willing to put their lives on the line so little fucktards like you can think you have it all figured out. You think that THEY are no better than roadkill?? Any service to your country or anybody else, military or otherwise is a worthwilde cause. Go play in the street like the fucking idiot you are.


    I wish people who think war brings a nation closer together, like in WW2, could read these comments.

    Ciao, you are a cunt, with flappping cunt lips and rotten cunt breath, and your cunt mouth is a cock rodeo, you little cunt bitch. wtf does hair metal have to do with teenage angst? If we ever meet I will introduce you to heavy metal, sideways up your ass. cunt.



    You just proved my point.

    My culture was made possible by the smart guys who invented the Internet, sid vicious, the many discoverers of ethanol and some other random contributors. NOT some boys with their head full of indoctrinated heroism and a gun in their hands. In whatever war shaped history, there was plenty of them on both sides, so who’s to say which ones I have to thank? The winners or the losers? Besides, as far as I’m concerned, history can go fuck itself. A lot.

    If someone decides to die for his country – great. Shove a flagpole up your posterior. It doesn’t make them any better than ANY OTHER SUICIDAL! Just because this method of self-killing is approved of by state and society, they’re suddenly demigods deserving worship?

    Don’t know how you were raised and/or/or not educated, but whatever way it was – I’d wager it contained a lot of ye olde “Oh look, our troops! The good guys! Heroes! Real sons of our country! Yadda yadda yadda!”

    Somewhere between naive, plain stupid and overly eager to kill – there’s soldiers.
    So they think they’re doing it for us? Intentions don’t matter for normal murderers either, why should they count when it comes to ones in uniforms with flags stitched on them?

    Rant rant rant. Meh.


    Just FYI, DARPA invented the Internet.

    Gilly if you really knew any decent soldiers, you probably wouldn’t think so lowly of them.


    I tend not to socialise with people who actually believe that killing foreigners would serve any recommendable cause.

    As far as soldiers I actually DO know are concerned…they’re mostly alcoholics, or conscripts who shortened their stay in the military by bribing their superiors or having little accidents. And then there’s some of these pride men who really just love the military – and would’ve done so no differently in the Nazi Wehrmacht.

    Nonetheless, even without knowing such and similar people, I’d never think of soldiers in any but the lowliest of ways.


    So, just so we’re on the same page, here, what you’ve pretty much said is that the only soldiers you know are alcoholics and people involved in bribery. Since you know only people like that in the military, they must *all* be like that, is apparently how your logic must work.

    That’s good. It makes complete sense.

    And as for the people you know who have “bribed” their way out of their contracts, I’m calling BS. Not unless they had a substantial, and I mean substantial, amount of money is that going to happen.


    Gilly, you are a sad, narrow-minded piece of shit. Yeah, there are and have been lots of sick and or weak minded people all around the world who ended up in their particular military organization one way or another. But the vast majority of soldiers (I’m using that as an all inclusive term) joined because they actually felt strongly enough about something to be willing fight for it. Why did they have to do this? Because ass-pimples like you are too mentally and spiritually weak to fight for what’s important to them.

    I’m sorry that the only soldiers you know are alcoholics or conscripts (where the fuck do live that still conscripts soldiers?), maybe you should consider finding a better circle of acquaintances.

    Now go back to whatever it is you do to exercise you narrow mind and sleep well at night knowing that better men and women than you are keeping you safe. May reality someday find it’s way into your life.


    And if you don’t know what DARPA stands for, smart guy, it’s the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency.

    So, going by your own words of “My culture was made possible by the smart guys who invented the Internet..,” you pretty much admitted that a large part of your culure has been formed as a result of the “smart guys who invented the Internet” and also invented ways to make the killing the military does easier and more efficient.

    You should look up other things that have been made as a result of DoD and DARPA research. You’d probably be surprised at how much of your daily life is made possible by advancements that were first made in military research.

    And Maus does bring up a good point. If the only military people you know are alcoholics with shady involvement in bribery, get some new fucking friends. That speaks far more about you. one guy, and your choice of acquaintances than it does about the military, a group of about one and a half million. It’s not my fault you’ve chosen to associate with scum bags.


    One more question: since you’re obviously of the highest moral caliber that puts you in a position to judge people by the hundreds of thousands since you know all there is to know about them, and you’ve damned their whole existence, surely you won’t use inventions made by these people, right? I mean, wouldn’t that be hypocritical?


    Oh my. Did the never-quiet trumpets of manly rage about the denunciation of the glorious institution that is the military somehow drown the quiet little line stating that my opinion on soldiers in general had nothing to do with the ones I got to know personally?

    “joined because they actually felt strongly enough about something to be willing fight for it. Why did they have to do this? Because ass-pimples like you are too mentally and spiritually weak to fight for what’s important to them.”

    Because corporate interests, votes, nationalism and the urge to display one’s military power over another are ever so terribly important to me.

    Tell me about the wars that were actually fought for the same reason they were officially intended to, I’d sure like to know them!


    About the Internet thingy: Sure, it was invented by a branch of the military. But even for someone without any deep insight into the structure of US government institutions, I’m rather sure there’s quite a difference between the ones who develop technologies and those who end up as a rifle with boots and a helmet.

    Besides, why am I not supposed to use it? If caffeine had first been discovered as a performance enhancer for soldiers, it wouldn’t make it any less useful for civilians.


    Ooooh, I get it. You can hate something all you want, and detest it on all moral levels, but if it makes something you like, then that something it made is okay.

    DARPA isn’t a BRANCH of the military. The BRANCHES of the military are the Navy, Coast Guard, Marines, Air Force, and Army. Again, you’re only showing that you have no clue what in the hell you’re talking about.

    DARPA’s research has lead to the creation of those rifles you keep mentioning, the missiles, and all the other, nifty things the military uses.

    Where do you think these developers come from? They’re just scientists who invent missiles and firearms that they have no idea how to use? How would that even work?

    Again, despite the fact that you’re the one throwing around accusations of other people being stupid and uneducated, you’ve so far proven that you have absolutely no clue what in the world you’re talking about.

    You’ve pretty much have admitted that:
    1) Your personal culture is largely based on a military invention
    2) You have no clue how the military or the government works
    3) The only people that you know in the military are drunkards who deal with bribes


    Now, that being said, how can you possibly look at yourself and say that you’re right in what you believe or think?

    Look, if you went out of your way to meet people who have served or are serving the military, then I’d understand. If you actually went out of your way to make an informed, educated decision or opinion, I wouldn’t be able to argue. But when you sit here and admit that you purposely don’t associate with soldiers, and the ones you do some how know are dirt bags, don’t expect people to just be like “OH YOU’RE RIGHT!”

    You SAID YOURSELF that you don’t associate with soldiers, and of the very few you do know, they’re dirt bags.

    So, let me get this straight–you purposely avoid having any contact with the people you hate because of an opinion you’ve formed without meeting these people. How does that even make sense to you?

    If you want to hate me for what I do, that’s perfectly fine. I don’t expect the average American or civilian to understand me or my job. Hate all you want, it’s your right to do as much. But, please, make a concerted effort to find out more about an issue like this before you say or believe such things.


    Self-description: “someone without any deep insight into the structure of US government institutions”.
    I had admitted it already, so there really wasn’t any need to emphasize my lack of knowledge about HOW DARPA and the Army are related.
    And as said – I just wrote about the ex-soldiers I know as a conversation piece, not as a part to the actual argument. Just in case I have to spell it out once more: My opinion of soldiers in general is not influenced by the specimens I got to know personally, but instead based on information gathered via various media (mostly the internet).

    But alright, no dwelling on this stuff; Let’s get back to the point.

    I approve of developing useful technologies.
    I do not approve of running around armed and full of false justification on foreign soil, following orders no matter what the consequences and expecting exceptional honours when getting topped while doing so.
    I also do not think that soldiers ever get to fight for whatever they believe in – regardless of how naive, noble or nonsensical their beliefs may be.

    Still no reply on this one, I think: “Tell me about the wars that were actually fought for the same reason they were officially intended to, I’d sure like to know them!”

    Luke Magnifico


    -The most useful technology developed in the States is researched and mass produced on Defense budget dollar. That’s the point they were making with DARPA.

    -Would you prefer decades of pointless bureaucracy culminating in a nuclear trade-off? Sometimes having infantry on the ground is a necessary evil.

    -Alot of soldiers don’t believe in anything other than getting paid. Most of the ones I know are in the military purely for the paycheck, the pension and the education grant.

    World War 1. And 2. Fought for the explicit goal of halting a savage war machine.

    Luke Magnifico

    Also, I’m not asking you to give these boys and girls any more respect than someone who dies of cancer or gets run over by a car, even though I do, but the fact remains that they are dead, so please, don’t give them any less.


    “Caio, for somebody who preaches so much of appreciating the views of others and tolerance, you seem to have an extremely close-minded, stereotypical view of American servicemen and women.”

    Yes. I dated a girl who’s grandad was an Air Force general, and whose father was an officer of some rank (I was a teenager, this was um, late 90s). I used to spend heaps of time on bases because there wasn’t much to do in the middle of the north Cali desert and also everything was really cheap because she had one of them cards.

    Here’s my impression of Osama Ben Laden: Always respect the insurgents. You might not agree with the Mujahideen but you MUST always respect people who fight and die for Islam.

    See a pattern?


    Sorry, misquoted. He asked if I’d ever met American military fairies. The answer is yes, many times.

    Luke Magnifico

    Military fairies?

    Why haven’t you guys won yet?

    Fairies have fucking unicorns, man.

    Unicorns are like the narwhals of the land.


    Sucks that people are dying out there and instead of us going out there and helping them or doing our best to help them from home we sit on the internet arguing over things with no matter. Do you think there’s a difference between democrats and republicans on how things work and better or worse? No.

    Just like Dictators, you can get either one, you’re really just picking which way you want to fuck yourself this time around.


    Wow. I mean, I usually get called a pinko commie liberal in most internet arguments, but wow. This isn’t even about politics, it’s basic human decency. But I suppose basic human decency now falls into the same category as common sense, thanks to Cairo and Gilly demonstrating a complete lack of either.

    Being a soldier is a job. For many, it’s the only job they can get. You can flap your gums as much as you want about whether or not we should go to war, whether it’s morally justified and ethical (in fact, I encourage it), but once the decision has been made, it’s time for the soldiers to to their job. And they have about as much right to refuse to do their job as you do to refuse to cook a McDonalds hamburger because you’re morally opposed to the killing of animals.

    In my books, anyone who volunteers for a job where “armed men trying very hard to kill you” is an accepted occupational hazard deserves a lot more respect the some self-righteous, pretentious twat who can only derive joy from lording their supposed superiority over strangers.


    this may become a juggernaut, let’s hit a hundred!

    Caio, I think it’s cool that you go down on hookers before you fuck em. it’s so sweet.


    WW2 stopped the obvious fascists and replaced them with ones who were even better at lying. Granted, I certainly wouldn’t prefer having to do a Heil Hitler ten times a day for basic excersice, but the Allies’ intentions in the war were , from a political point of view, still purely nationalist.
    Although that probably – and listen! lo and behold! – was the last time in history when common soldiers actually got to do any good. (Although again – was it benevolent Altruism or just fear of having their home country endangered?)

    And as far as common sense and basic human decency are concerned – if they’re supposed to move certain subjects (e.g. dead soldiers) beyond doubt and questioning, then they’re something I wouldn’t accept as debating material.


    South Park won this debate back in like 2003 with this episode. Seriously. Watch it and then try tellin me you aren’t satisfied.



    Watched it and…yea…fully satisfied.

    Damn, seen like this, America sucks even more than I thought o.Ô


    Dyna-Mole & Gilly
    Holy fuck, you two form your political and moral judgments based on South Park episodes? That explains a lot.


    DasMaus, did you watch it? Ya know, just because South Park settles a debate, does not mean it chose a side.

    If you formed all of your political beliefs on South Park you would only sit in the very middle of all issues and watch the country go down in flames, all the while laughing, laughing.


    Gilly, we are who we are. I am anarchy incarnate. I think our leaders should be hung on the White House lawn. however, i enjoy the American way of life like a little kid would a carnival. why look a gift horse in the mouth? we got born into one of the craziest cultures in the history of the world, and, despite what a lot of people would say now, a not-so-oppressive one – historically speaking.


    Dyna_Mole, I gotta admit that I’ve probably seen less than a dozen South Park episodes, so you could very well be right. To me the media is more of a civil barometer than an influence, I wish I could say that for more people.

    As for your comment to Gilly about our culture being one of the craziest in history, you are definitely right about that and we’re only getting craizer. There’s probably a pretty good chance that you’ll eventually get to see your “down in flames” scenario play itself out, you lucky little anarchist.




    Are we talking about a crazy culture with “crazy” as in “fun-loving to a degree of reckless abandon” or rather “50% of brain replaced with beer and bible shreds”?

    In any case, go Anarchy in the US and…if some God had blessed the troops, they wouldn’t be dying out there, would they? 😛



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