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The preference for expansion over security has been particularly evident since Israel’s fateful decision in 1971, backed by Henry Kissinger, to reject the offer of a full peace treaty by President Sadat of Egypt, offering nothing to the Palestinians — an agreement that the US and Israel were compelled to accept at Camp David eight years later, after a major war that was a near disaster for Israel. A peace treaty with Egypt would have ended any significant security threat, but there was an unacceptable quid pro quo: Israel would have had to abandon its extensive settlement programs in the northeastern Sinai. Security was a lower priority than expansion, as it still is. Substantial evidence for this basic conclusion is provided in a magisterial study of Israel’s security and foreign policy by Zeev Maoz, Defending the Holy Land.
(…)
Meanwhile we are quietly observing a rare event in history, what the late Israeli sociologist Baruch Kimmerling called “politicide,” the murder of a nation — at our hands.
– Noam Chomsky
And now for my ignorant commentary:
…do we really need that nation?
It’s always some war or some revolting shit over there.
I don’t care what that piece of land is called and who its rulers are as long as there will be peace. And yeah I care, because I have family over there, both Jewish and non Jewish. Unfortunately Palestinians aren’t allowed to leave, so I can’t just send them a ticket and say hey come over here, leave the war behind.
Why aren’t they allowed to leave? What’s the point of keeping them there, against there will?
I don’t know, it doesn’t make sense since they don’t allow Palestinian refugees to return either. The farthest my aunt got from the place was Egypt and she managed to do that only because she works for the UN. Although they took away her passport so she was stuck and had to go back.
Wait. Are you saying that some of the denizens of Gaza cannot leave and if they manage to, they’re either forced back or never allowed back at all…AND there’s not an obvious answer as to why? That seems to me a very important part of any political talks and negotiating.
It’s an Israeli security matter, you cannot deny Israel the right to defend itself.
ack! *their will
Here’s the real question: Was Palestine a nation, in any sense of the word (culturally, politically, historically) before the 1960s?
Also, why, during hundreds of years of Turskish rule, did the sense of Palestinian nationhood not flare up once?
Also, why did they name themselves after their British occupier’s anglicized Latin word that ultimately is derived from Hebrew? Don’t they speak the Arabic? Isn’t that part of their national identity?
That’s gotta be the simplest question anyone could ask in this otherwise contentious debate. Yes, both the Israelites and the Palestinians considered the same areas to be their native homeland. This is not uncommon, it is simply a bizarre accident of history that they both survived to modern times to contest the land.
So, find me one reference to them before the 50s or 60s. Cuz I’m pretty sure that before that they were just Arabs. Arabs who had no problem living under non-arab occupier after non-arab occupier – Muslim and Christian alike – and occupiers who, after the war, had no problem when their Christian overlords divided them between Egypt, Syria and Jordan. It was only that little bit partitioned to the Jewish settlers who had formed a majority in certain areas for over 50 years (in peaceful coexistence with the Turks and Arabs) that seemed to give them any kind of national identity and unity.
Because their previous occupiers didn’t behave and talk this way: “Between ourselves it must be clear that there is no room for both peoples together in this country. We shall not achieve our goal if the Arabs are in this small country. There is no other way than to transfer the Arabs from here to neighboring countries – all of them. Not one village, not one tribe should be left.” – Joseph Weiz, Head of the Jewish Agency’s Colonization Department 1940
Perhaps they want their own country so this won’t happen again.
Here’s the real answer to the real question….Israel was not a state until the USA and Russia set it up in 1948 after WWII and the holocaust. Try reading a little history. The middle east was pretty peaceful until then and has been in constant turmoil since.
A state is not equivalent to a people. A people have a common language, history and culture. A state is a bunch of bureaucrats that take bribes and sometimes pretend to care if and only if the mechanics of the state demand it every four to ten years or so.
Oh, yes. Tell me to read some more history. Two degrees in history and every fucking day of my life as long as I can remember pissing my life away reading bullshit history but your whatever-standup-comedian informed your worldview is so much more valuable.
Keep bitching to me because George Carlin told you to or whoever the fuck. I love the fucking internet.
@Caio – I’m so sorry that you have spent “every fucking day of my life as long as I can remember pissing my life away reading bullshit history” and still went on to get “Two degrees in history” and yet still don’t realized that the state of Israel was once Arab land given to the Jews after WWII.
I sincerely hope that you take a moment to reflect on your life choices and consider getting a degree in something that will bring more fulfillment to your days on earth. Life’s too short to carry that much anger my friend.
But if that doesn’t work, I’m sure that you can reach Nirvana by arguing on the intertubes.
Maybe you should’ve gotten a real degree…
If you were trying to pick a Chomsky quote that makes him look like an idiot: great success!
The settlements in Sinai were withdrawn in 1982 and the settlements in Gaza were withdrawn in 2005.
“Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu responded with a big concrete slap: the announcement of 1,600 more homes to be built on occupied Palestinian land from which Arabs will be forcibly kept out. He has made it plain he will not loosen his grip by an inch, announcing: “Even if [Palestinian President] Abu Mazen comes along and says he’s ready to sign a peace deal on the spot, we will restore settlement construction to its previous levels.” No compromise. Never.”
www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-palestinians-should-now-declare-their-independence-1920130.html
Way to change the subject. That’s West Bank, not Sinai or Gaza or anything that might have to do with the treaty of 1971 or the Camp David accords.
Give Jimmy Carter his due: the Camp David accords brought an end to an almost continuous war between Egypt and Israel and have lasted for over 30 years. Its one of the most successful peace treaties in history. The endurance of that treaty and withdrawal from Sinai shows the Chomsky was wrong about Israel’s “preference for expansion over security”.
Chomsky didn’t say that about Sinai or Gaza exclusively, his main point was this: “Security was a lower priority than expansion, as it still is.”
My prior comment about what Netanyahu says and does proves that.
How does that make him look like an idiot, unless the quotes are from 2006+?
Somewhat less verbose than the post above: Agreed.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzT7BqleVSc&feature=related
SHIT STORM!!!
the jews are the new nazis 😀
they are worse than nazis
nazis were quite happy to accept different types of european identity, as long as they were just that, of european ethnicity
jews dont want anything except one big israel covering the planet with every man woman child, and anything else that can be physically circumcised to be a part of their race
US foreign policy in Palestine: “Better the hook-nose kikes control the place where some arbitrary religious crap happened 20 centuries ago, than those dirty, smelly sand-niggers!”
US foreign policy in palestine is biased by the fact the jews control the US federal banks,…they dont help israel, US goes bankrupt
we all saw how the US economy turned to shit when Saudi Arabia told usa dont go to war, but they did anyway so the arabs withdrew alot of their wealth from USA
imagine what would happen to USA if israel got angry…..
USA would be in africa’s situation
I’d take it a little more seriously if they knew how to spell ‘Palestine’.
I’d take it even more seriously if they considered the West Bank to be part of Palestine.
Wait, you’re saying that this anti-US/Israeli photograph might possibly not be showing documents written in English? Perhaps that the target audience might not have U.S. English as a first language? How shocking!
Maybe. My first language isn’t English, either, it’s Portuguese. And I’m not American if that’s what you’re implying. And I live in China so why don’t you try to insinuate that I’m parochial some more: it’s a wonderful way to skirt the issue.
Some googling tells me that the only language that spells it that way is Scottish Gaelic, so yes maybe this professional-looking image was made in one of the two or three villages that still speaks that language. It would also explain why their knowledge of middle-eastern geography is so weak that they wouldn’t include the West Bank or Gaza – the two areas with the largest Palestinian populations – as part of Palestine.
Oh, stupid me. It could also be from Malaysia.
Yeah definitely Scottish Gaelic or Malaysian. Simplest explanation, etc.
Both spellings are correct. As is Palestina which is also a pretty good song by Ministry.
I’d take you more seriously if you took your meds you racially confused mental patient.
For a secret deal to take over the area and giftwrap it for the Jews, they’re sure taking their sweet time to do such a shitty job.
Meh, it’s violent for everyone involved, including the Palestinians.
That place is the biggest cluster fuck on earth, besides “Insert African Nation Here.”
israel isnt even on that map
your argument is invalid
I wiped it off. Eraser board FTW!
conan, if only you could wipe israel off the map
No-one should ever, EVER be ‘entitled’ to own land due to religion. Fuck Israel.
Free Palestine
Perhaps if Israel is freed as well?
Freed from what?
Constant war. The hatred from outside that means they can never let their guard down.
Just kill all religious zealots and patriotic imbeciles, rename the entire place.
wont that wipe out any of them that are over what 9-10 years old?
Nuke em? For some this is the only answer they have.
hmmmm
gather up all jews from across the globe, put them all in gaza, then nuke
no jews, no israel, no palestine and no more gaza to fight over
boo fuckin hoo
also, no one will EVER fix this problem
This shit storm is too mellow…
Hey if God didn’t want the Jews to have Israel then they wouldn’t have it right?
well since the original bible was written by jews, even after a bit of mis-translation from aramaic to latin, then to english, the BS remains the same that jews want everyone to think they are the chosen people.
since the Norse, Egyptian and Greek gods never had to deal with the jews, they would never have given them anything, so the jews are just relying on the fact that a book they wrote says ‘god’ wants them to have israel
Ya I was kidding.
That’s what the first part meant.
Religious people are all nuts. That’s why they’re religious. Science and logic are too complicated for them.
Cool, now that all palestinians have been crushed between
the two giant hands, we will now have peace. party on, giant hands!
[however, someone must have shop’ed this, because everyone knows
palestinians have green blood.]