Tax Plans of the USA

Tax Plans of the USA


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    Howie Feltersnatch

    Hmmm…one guy’s going to cut my taxes by 2.5%; the other by 2.1%. A whole 0.4% difference!!! Guess I’ll need another deciding factor. Let’s see….Oh! I know, McCain’s a senile, PTSD-suffering moron with a corrupt bimbo as a running mate. Think I’ll vote for the other guy.

    Catherine Longfellow

    Howie Feltersnatch: I’m down in the 0.7% vs. 2.4% range so my choice was much easier in that reguard.


    can you say “no brainer”?!


    Mine is -1.4% or -1.8%, so significant difference for me. But I wasn’t voting based solely on taxes. The difference between what the candidates thinks about the poor, up and coming and just getting started is a difference in basic philosophy and I much prefer Obama over McCain.


    * No significant difference


    I have to admit that I’m not entirely sure what this chart is telling me. Is this showing the average % increase for marginal tax rates at different income levels? If one is to believe that their spendable income will either rise or lower depending on tax law, shouldn’t we consider much much more than just income taxes?

    beep beep

    nyokki: Shit. Can you send some money my way? I’m in the -0.2% vs. -5.5% section.


    What’s wrong with mccain? He seems to think that the people who need the programs should pay for them. I can’t see anything wrong with that.


    If the folks who have more wealth than they could spend in 3 generations would invest some of it in the economy instead of just speculating with it and generating more hoarded wealth, that would be fine. If we live in a capitalist society, everyone needs to be responsible. It doesn’t just mean that everyone gets a job and pays taxes. It means we need to actually invest money to create jobs and opportunities. Stubborn hoarders need a kick in the ass.

    Would the US really be that bad of a place if in 2 generations everyone was educated, healthy and insured? Imagine what we could do as a nation. Only problem is, a smart, healthy populace elects smart honest leaders. That tends to scare some of the folks who like status-q.


    If the people who need the programs had the money to pay for the programs, they wouldn’t need the programs. And we’d call them upper class.


    beep beep: haha, I wish I had more to spare. I’m still paying back <$40,000 in student loans, a house and kids through college. I’ve noted over the years that people tend to spend just a little bit more than they make.


    Ooh! Ooh!

    Let’s all compare income!

    I’m in the +4.4 vs -8.6 category. o_O Warte mal… dass ist nicht richtig! (Woohoo! Besoffen!)


    Where my wife and I fall there isn’t a whole lot of difference. I am voting for Obama because I like the fact that those who ABLE will be PAYING MORE TAXES!! Fair is FAIR!


    Note that this is just percentages on income tax paid. Laws concerning how much you can shield from taxation in various ways will vastly change how much this affects you. My opinion is that upper income bracket earners are currently paying the correct amount IF THEY ACTUALLY PAID THAT MUCH. But they don’t, because of some amazing tax dodging laws that exist for the kind of financial options that the upper brackets have that the middle and lower brackets do not. That’s why my response is always, “it’s more complicated than that…”



    How is an ability-to-pay tax system fair at all? Fair is taxing those who, beyond the income needed to sustain life (a la the personal exemptions and standard deductions you get to claim on your tax return), have the income to pay for the services they use. More services, more tax. Less services, less tax.

    It makes no sense for those that make a lot of expendable income to be paying a ton of taxes for services they don’t use.


    sorry…the WTF was directed at j_bryon’s comment, not WistfulD’s.


    Re: tax-dodging laws.

    I have two degrees in accounting – one in general accounting (undergrad) and one in taxation (graduate). I prepare and review tax returns for one of the largest accounting firms in the world, and specialize in privately-owned businesses and individual tax returns.

    During my time as a tax accountant (in school and as a professional preparer), I will tell you that there are actually very few individuals that get away with paying little tax – the marginal rate has been in the upper 30% range for years now, and I will confidently say that the vast (vast) majority of the taxpayers I have prepared and reviewed returns for pay close to that every year. Very few taxpayers involve themselves in this “overseas account” nonsense because of the paperwork and litigation involved, not to mention you still have to pay tax on most of that income in the US if the country your money is in doesn’t charge enough. Don’t kid yourself and think that the rich are getting away with murder, so to speak. If I had a dollar for every 6- and 7-digit quarterly tax payment check I’ve seen, I’d be one of those rich folks, too.


    Warren Buffet has stated that his personal assistant pays a higher percentage than he does when all is said and done. WTF?


    WTF is that he pays a huge percentage of long-term capital gains taxes vs the average earner (most of his income is from investments in and similar to his own company), which are capped at 15%. If you didn’t work a W-2 or 1099 job like most of the average joes, you, too could invest in companies and pay 15% on your income, too – you would just earn a good bit less because you don’t have the $$ he has to get into the elite investment groups.

    Also, he’s one example – I’m not talking about the 2 or 3 or even 400 richest people in the country – I’m talking about the top 1% or so, who make a TON of money every year, but do not have the pull of a Buffet or a Gates. If you were to poll those making in the upper 6 digits and into the 7 and 8 digits, I’d be willing to wager a huge amount of money that most of them pay very close to their highest marginal rate. I say that because my experience has been one big survey.

    Howie Feltersnatch

    jascas_: What do you mean “less services, less tax”? Are you implying that folks with high income don’t use a lot of services? Because that’s pure bull shit. Rich people have a lot more to protect than poor people. That means they get a hell of a lot more value out of the police, fire departments, and military than poor people do. The same police protect the due with the $5M mansion as they guy renting the double-wide. But the millionaire has a LOT more to protect.

    Besides, maybe you haven’t noticed, but one of the ways you get to be rich in the first place is because people want to buy your stuff. And that means they drove to your stores on roads (taxes paid for), in cars put together with standard sized parts (thanks government regulation), who can communicate with modern telecommunication systems (thanks ARPA; thanks government regulation), and are protected by first responders (taxes) and the military (taxes).

    Make no mistake; rich people use a SHITLOAD of services. Oh wow, LuWanda is getting $5 of gummint cheese a month and some food stamps and gets to stand in line for hours to work out a problem with her welfare check for a couple hundred dollars! What a lucky ducky! What an awesome life–she should totally pay a whole crapload for those wonderful services. Meanwhile Chester McRichbastard lives in some kind of fucking vaccuum where I guess he doesn’t need roads or a military or police, and he sure as hell doesn’t benefit from tons of his customers getting a public education or anything, so he shouldn’t pay shit.

    I don’t feel rich. But I guess according to the chart I’m pretty well off. I don’t like paying my taxes, but then again I don’t like spending money–I’m a tightwad. But I’ve got more than most people, and I understand why I should pay more in taxes. I’ve got more to protect, and in a lot of ways it’s due to the stable government that we have, and the services that it provides that I got to where I am. Makes sense for me to pay a higher percentage than someone who can’t afford it.

    Howie Feltersnatch

    suicydking: I think he was taking FICA into account–it was the total tax burden, not just income taxes. It’s capped at what? $102,000? So from $0 to $102,000 you’re paying something like a flat 5% of your income to SS. But if you earn a gazillion dollars, 5% of 102k is basically 0% of a gazillion. Po folks get hit a lot harder (percentage wise) with SS than rich folks. That figures into the calculation I believe.



    Careful now, you made a right wingish sounding comment. The local obamanites will have your head.



    Please don’t polarize or misconstrue my comments – I’m saying less service, less tax, more service, more tax. I am not saying what you’re trying to from my argument, that rich people don’t use more service.

    I don’t agree that someone making $1,000,000/yr is using ~$300,000/yr more government services than someone making $22,000. What I am saying is that to make them pay another $100,000/yr in taxes because they can is outrageous – they’re already paying a much higher percentage on their disposable income. Now I know that you cannot measure how much more government-provided service they consume, but I will dare you to say with a straight face that you feel like they’re being taxed somewhere close to what they use.

    Your example of how you get “rich” is absolutely ridiculous – I guess you don’t realize how many people make six and seven figures on a W-2 each year – not requiring anyone in the public to drive to them or use government infrastructure to benefit from their service. Besides, do you really think that income taxes pay for even a small amount of road building or maintenance?? Try local sales & gas taxes – that’s where most of the money comes from, and where the “rich” person pays along the same exact use/tax ratio as the “poor” person. What the heck do government-regulated car parts have to do with anything? Perhaps you’re a bit behind the times, but the US government hasn’t given much oversight that has helped the public with wireless digital services, let alone helped advance technology. For what a government should do (or not do, as it were), check out Japan and how it’s government has allowed cell companies to do what they’d like as long as it’s on the general infrastructure for the entire nation.

    Let’s also not be racist – I know you never specifically mentioned African Americans in your third paragraph, but we all know what you meant. You’re arguing a point against one I never made – at no point did I say that “LuWanda” should have to “pay a whole crapload” for the services she uses. In fact, if “LuWanda” really does make $200/wk, she’ll pay no income taxes at all. That is fine by me, but you must realize there are people that make incomes between $200/wk and however much you’re implying “Chester McRichbastard” makes, and the people on the lower end of that should have to pay their fair share of taxes, too, instead of having the more wealthy people pay them just because they’re able. And again, I never implied that rich people live “in some kind of fucking vaccuum” where they don’t “need roads or a military or police” – I just don’t think they use tens or hundreds times more of those services. You’re also implying that all rich people have big houses, drive all the time, and generally consume more and more often, which is an ignorant assumption and a wrong one at that.

    Lastly, I am still not arguing that tax rates should be the same up and down the board, nor even that the marginal rates shouldn’t increase as income increases. What I am saying is that bitching about “tax cuts for the rich” when their marginal rate is going from 36% to 34% (for example) or when a huge majority of them already pay tens and hundreds of thousands per year in income taxes alone is ridiculous.


    Dear thelotuseater725,

    Thank you for your concern, truly. I’m certain that I’m in the minority here, but I will voice my opinion all the same. Some times it will be aligned more with the right, some times the left, some times liberal, some times conservative. I’m just proud I have my own opinions, not what some political party or social group has told me to think because I’m a southerner or black or poor or Mexican or from the east or rich, etc. If I have educated myself about something, I will say what I think – if not, I will simply listen.

    Wow, this soap box is really high up.


    suicydking: Agreed.

    Paul_Is_Drunk: Du meine Güte.


    The first year I hit the AMT I freaked at how much I had to pay, considering that I usually got a refund. I had to re-think our finances. We ended up putting the max amount into 401k and 457b. I started a medical savings account, etc…I honestly don’t mind paying taxes. I figured that out after moving from NYC to WV. NYC taxes are very high, but everything’s covered. Taxes in WV is practically zero, but I have to pay fees for school, fire, ambulance, emergency services, personal property tax…In the end the difference isn’t that much, but I no longer have the automatic services. I now pay an accountant to do my taxes. I used to do them myself, but it’s just easier to pay someone else to do it.

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