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This is about the only time I have ever seen someone against guns correctly use statistics that are in fact in their favor without having to skew them, lie or rely on heavy bias.
The one thing I can’t stand is people saying how countries that have banned guns have declined in homicides by method of firearm (AKA “gun violence”). This actually is true, but mass murders do not cease and homicide rate never decreases while assaults always increase (look up Australia for one).
In any case the whole argument of % of guns vs % of crime (of any sort) in any country is a sticky wicket. The only real conclusion that can be gleaned from it is that there is no correlation. Look at Japan and Honduras, both examples of low gun ownership yet Japan has a low homicide rate and the Honduras leads the world in homicide rate. If America’s prevalent gun ownership is to be correlated with it’s violence then statistically we would be one of the most peaceful countries on the planet.
Secondly violent crime statistics are all counted very differently. In the U.S. if three people were murdered it’s on the books right away as three homicides. In the U.K. if three people were murdered it’s counted as one incident, furthermore it only goes on the books if the murderer is caught, tried and convicted.
furthermore it only goes on the books if the murderer is caught, tried and convicted
This is wrong, please provide a citation.
And so…
If he’s talking about the Euro, then yes, he’s correct: they do not count gun homicides as “murder” unless there is a conviction.
Actually your point about Australia is pretty incorrect; Australia hasn’t had a mass shooting since the port Arthur Massacre in 1996 (in which 35 people were killed), this was the shooting that prompted Australia to tighten gun restrictions.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Arthur_massacre_(Australia)
I’d also like to point out that the homicide rate in Australia has shown a gradual decrease.
www.aic.gov.au/publications/current%20series/tandi/341-360/tandi359/view%20paper.html
Furthermore, you should also note that even though Australia has higher rates of sexual assault and assault than the US, “Crime statistics are often better indicators of prevalence of law enforcement and willingness to report crime, than actual prevelence.”
www.nationmaster.com/compare/Australia/United-States/Crime
“Since 1967, homicide figures for England and Wales have been adjusted to exclude any cases which do not result in conviction, or where the person is not prosecuted on grounds of self defence or otherwise.”
www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm199900/cmselect/cmhaff/95/95ap25.htm
Australia: Quaker’s Hill Nursing Home Fire, Childer’s Palace Fire. People still find a way to kill each other.
If you are going to quote something quote all of it in context;
35. Homicide statistics too vary widely. In some developing countries, the statistics are known to be far from complete. Figures for crimes labelled as homicide in various countries are simply not comparable. Since 1967, homicide figures for England and Wales have been adjusted to exclude any cases which do not result in conviction, or where the person is not prosecuted on grounds of self defence or otherwise. This reduces the apparent number of homicides by between 13 per cent and 15 per cent. The adjustment is made only in respect of figures shown in one part of the Annual Criminal Statistics. In another part relating to the use of firearms, no adjustment is made. A table of the number of homicides in which firearms were used in England and Wales will therefore differ according to which section of the annual statistics was used as its base. Similarly in statistics relating to the use of firearms, a homicide will be recorded where the firearm was used as a blunt instrument, but in the specific homicide statistics, that case will be shown under “blunt instrument”.
And that is the difference between your American definitions of homicide and manslaughter. The statistic of any type of death by firearm is a whole other area.
Now I’ve no way of proving this but I think the key for gun suicide is the belief that it results in (near) instant death. The appeal of guns for this is obvious.
(Yes – I know it often doesn’t work that way but that is the perception.)
Also Switzerland was useful to the Nazi’s during WW2. It’s where the top brass went on holiday, it’s where building materials/arms were dispersed through, and of course it’s where they stashed their loot away from the eyes of the general public.
Not to mention Switzerland has very difficult terrain and the bridges/tunnels were (and still are) rigged to blow up in case of invasion to protect all the stashed booty.
That’s funny. A right wing Texican nut job friend of mine posted the same thing. I had a similar arguement. What happend in Switzerland has no bearing on things in the USA.
The writer is damn near close to the truth but one eye-opening portion that he omits is just as devastating, especially to those that look to Switzerland as some type of example of gun-panacea, it’s the fact to what’s taking place there today. Ironically of all nations here in Europe, Switzerland is the only one now beginning to have some of the very same devastating results and incidents’ of gun violence and suicides as those taking place in America, suicide being the worst.
Here’s a little known fact that I’m positive is never brought up at your local NRA meetings:
Suicide by personal firearms in Switzerland now accounts for more deaths than by car accidents, drug abuse and AIDS all put together.
www.swissinfo.ch/eng/Specials/Gun_debate/Background/Archives/High_gun_suicide_rate_linked_to_easy_access.html?cid=982416
Most nations can deal and recover from such a divesting loss of life but for Switzerland, this is a small nation with a small population compared with most of it’s European counterparts; the gun-suicide/murder mayhem is now taking a terrible toll on everything there.
For the first time in it’s history, Switzerland is having very major and frank open discussions about rethinking it’s liberal gun rights and seriously entertaining placing a referendum to be put to the voters. Like many of it’s European neighbours, many Swiss are quickly becoming in favor of stronger firearms control.
(I’m journalist that coincidentally just returned from Switzerland… it’s very frightening what’s taking place there presently, there are whole villages where 10 to 15% of the population has been lost to gun violence and suicide.)
In America, the suicide rate is much higher in gun owning homes than homes without firearms.
Not sure why, but it may have something to do with the fact that it requires very little preparation to kill yourself with a gun….no time for second thoughts….
Now I’ve no way of proving this but I think the key for gun suicide is the belief that it results in (near) instant death. The appeal of guns for this is obvious.
(Yes – I know it often doesn’t work that way but that is the perception.)
monaco. extremely restrictive gun laws. no murders since 2006. no gun related murders since 2004. sup brah?
www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/monaco
If you’re afraid of guns and live in America then move.
Everywhere else they’re restricted. So go ANYWHERE else you want. Serious anywhere.
Why stay where you’re miserable?
I said the same thing to a guy from Syria the other day Magnus, he looked at me like that was an unhelpful dick comment.
And don’t even ask what the woman from the UAE said to me when I told her “If you don’t like covering your shoulders then you can git out!”
“If you don’t like it, then you can get out”
“If you don’t like X then get out” is an utterly useless attitude. Firstly, because there isn’t a wonderland where everything is exactly to everyone’s liking, and secondly because it’s an attitude that basically denies that there is a problem that needs fixing.
Mine was a joke hence the ” “….was you using the south park quote from the Goobacks eps.
From John Lott: Switzerland has a very relaxed concealed carry law. Half the cantons in the country, you don’t need a license, you just carry it. The other half, very easy to get a license.They’ve had three big multiple-victim public shootings in the last 12 years. All three of those are in the very few buildings where guns aren’t allowed in Switzerland.
no one cares what Lott has to say
mediamatters.org/research/2013/03/12/the-nine-worst-claims-about-guns-from-john-lott/193014
Media Matters? Left-wing shill group of hacks.
fine. John Lott? fox news contributer. Right-wing group of fucktards that don’t now how to use statistics. or basic greater than or less than concepts.
David B. Mustard also co-authored the study, and he’s very liberal. I didn’t check to see that he’s 7 degrees removed from FOX News, but I’m sure you’ll find an excuse to keep your head in the sand.
(it wouldn’t let me reply to the new one)
well as of now my objection would be to your reluctance to actually post your source, whenever I searched your quote all that really came up was an interview with lott that did not have David in it. And this webpage.
i dont know about any of that, but i just squeezed the creme filling out of a doughnut, and used it as DIP for a jelly doughnut…whew.
I love how everyone misses the point that Switzerland is not only showing that restricting “the gun” isn’t the answer, but no one pays attention that their policies have worked.
Maybe you should read the post again…or maybe read it for the first time.
The only ammunition in Switzerland that is tightly controlled is the ammunition (formerly) supplied by the government to members of the militia. Ammunition is not controlled by the government; it is sold commercially. It is controlled only in the sense that you have to sign your name in a register when you by ammunition. In an age of internet search engines, there is no excuse for flat-out lying.
Oh you read it on the internet you say? And every thing YOU read on the internet must be true.
fuckin a right man
only facts obtained through a public library dewey decimal card lookup and hand delivered hard copy can qualify as truthful
la la la.. dumb fucking liberals, go die in a fucking north korean labor camp.. la la la .. molon labe you worthless pieces of shit