stop hand guns before they stop you

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    83 Responses to stop hand guns before they stop you

    1. Cute. Now put next to the number of deaths on each country, the percentage of black people in the population. Correlation is a wonderful thing, isn’t it?

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      • Trolldom apparently is as well.

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      • Holy shit that is the most openly racist shitty comment I have ever read on this site.

        Can we get this one a prize?

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      • I’m not going to dignify the “number of black people” comment with a response, but as for the rest of it, here are some more statistics:

        USA has 90% of it’s homicides from guns, compared to 81% for Switzerland, 48% for Canada, 47% for Israel, 20% for Sweden, 7% for Germany, 6% for Japan and 4% for the UK.

        USA also has 4.2 homicides per 100,000 population (3.7/100,000 gun homicides) compared to 2.1 (0.9) for Israel, 1.6 (0.8) for Canada, 1.2 (0.0) for the UK, 1.0 (0.2) for Sweden, 0.8 (0.1) for Germany, 0.7 (0.5) for Switzerland, and 0.3 (0.0) for Japan.

        Either way you look at it USA has a gun problem.

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        • What if it’s a people problem?

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          • It may well be, but I feel there is a better chance of convincing Americans to control their guns than getting them to admit that it’s not really the land of the free and the home of the brave.

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        • Would you feel better if more people were beat to death with hammers?

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          • Better? Yes. Good? No. If more people were beat to death with a hammer there would be less deaths over all, simply because you need to up close and personal with a hammer and be relatively physically fit, whereas with a gun you can be further away and don’t need too much strength. Less homicides would therefore make me feel better. The fact that people were still being murdered would mean I still wouldn’t feel good about it. What was your point?

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        • We should be like Mexico then and have strict gun control. Their crime rate and homicide rate is so low after all.

          Oops.

          Mexico, 2007:
          -Homicide rate: 8.7 per 100,000*
          -Gun ownership: 15 per 100,000 (rank: 42/178)

          But wait:

          Switzerland, 2007:
          -Homicide rate: 0.7 per 100,000
          -Gun ownership: 45.7 per 100,000 (rank: 4/178)

          Well that makes no sense.

          *Their rate for 2011 is 23.7, an increase of 172%. I am sure glad for our neighbors down South that gun control works for them, aren’t you?

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          • I think you need to re-think your definition of “strict gun control”. There is a huge difference between strict gun control and strict gun control laws. The laws might be there in Mexico, but are they enforced? We have strict gun control in my country, but we are an island nation and our borders are effectively policed, whereas in Mexico I imagine it would be easy to bring guns south from the US or north from Guatemala or Belize.

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            • No offense to you, but unless you have reason to doubt something other than what you “think” then don’t bother replying. Not trying to cause an argument here, I’d rather be civil, but every gun control debate I have always boils down to this:

              –“I think guns are bad.”
              –Statistics from me.
              –“Then why !”
              –Debunk their statement.
              –“Well you’re just a gun nut faggot.”
              –Cry and clean my guns with my tears.

              I spend time to write a counter; I pull statistics, read facts, do my research, try to not state something as truth when I have nothing to back it up. I interject my opinion but explicitly state it, personal and second-hand experiences, as such: they are my mine and can be argued to not reflect other people’s own perspectives.

              Carrying on.

              Mexican gun laws are enforced, but that does depends on who you are. Mexico is a very crooked country (this is something I will say as an exception is, practically considered common-knowledge sadly) so attaining a firearm as a drug cartel enforcer, lieutenant, etc. is probably no difficult task. But now we are getting in to another problem altogether.

              First off, the firearm related homicides in Mexico, per 100,000, is 10 (in 2010, all intentional homicides for that year was reported as 22.7 per 100,000). No number to shake a stick at, but it still goes to show that over half of their homicides (hereon all “homicides” are “intentional homicides”, not “accidental manslaughter” or “suicide”, et. all) are not committed with firearms at all. For comparison the U.S. that number of homicides is 3.7 per 100,000, with all homicides being 4.8. Not a good number for us either, but if you drew a correlation there you could speculate that access to firearms doesn’t make a country more or less violent. Hell, on average people commit murder in Mexico over twice as much than they do in America and they don’t even do it with a gun!

              It goes back to an argument I made on another post. The problem with homicide in America isn’t guns, in fact, as implausible as this may sound: murderers in America, are just fucking nuts to begin with. Yes, I can say without a doubt that the kind of person that wants to go out and kill a bunch of people for the fuck of it is probably not in the greatest state of mental health. I’m no psychologist or anything, it’s just my amateur opinion.

              Make no mistake though, guns seized in Mexico, by far and large, do not come from the U.S. 83% of those guns have not or cannot be traced back to the U.S. They likely did come from other countries.

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            • To the poster below this one: I couldn’t for some reason reply to your post, so hopefully you read this.

              No offence was taken, but in a forum like this surely peoples opinions can be expressed. Also, logic has to be used to back up opinions (I know it is a stretch for some people on the internet to be logical, but you seem to be ok).

              Let me say I don’t think guns are bad. I have used guns before – not hand guns, but shot guns, air rifles, and lager calibre rifles. What I think is bad is easy access to guns for the masses.

              I would not call you or anybody a “gun nut faggot”. I respect your right to your opinion, even if it is wrong. (Kidding! Read: even if it is different to mine.)

              You state that Mexican gun laws are enforced and then explain how they are not enforced. It can’t be both.

              You then state that gun homicides in Mexico are only 44% of total homicides (10/100,000 compared to 22.7/100000), whereas in the US it is 90% (3.7/100,000 compared to 4.2/100,000 – my stats are slightly different to yours). That kind of backs up the fact that a lower gun ownership and/or tighter gun control is a good thing.

              While I know that abolishing guns (which I concede is an impossibility) would not stop murders, common sense, logic and statistics back up the argument that guns make it easier to kill somebody. US citizens needs to accept that if they continue with the second amendment as law and inalienable, coupled with the current interpretation of that law, that events like at Newtown are going to be a lot more common than in many other developed countries.

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        • Actually USA has a HOMICIDE problem. How homicides are committed and the fact that they ARE committed has little to do with the availability of firearms. Out of 178 countries you could look at their intentional homicide rate and firearms per household and you wouldn’t find a correlation between the two:

          Honduras:
          –Gun ownership: 6.2 per 100,000
          –Homicide rate: 91.6 per 100,000

          Iceland:
          –Gun ownership: 30.3 per 100,000
          –Homicide rate: 0.3 per 100,000

          Meaning the average gun owner would have to kill at least 14 people to match the homicide rate in Honduras. Whereas in Iceland one out of over 100 gun owners would have to kill one person to match their homicide rate, that isn’t even their intentional homicide rate by firearms either.

          If someone wants to kill someone, they are going to do it. THAT is the problem. Why is America, a very prosperous nation, so eager to kill one another?

          P.S. By the way:

          Homicide offenders in the United States (2005):
          –Whites: 3.5 per 100,000
          –Blacks: 26.5 per 100,000

          Sorry, but when one race is over 650% higher than the other with it’s homicide rate, it’s hard to ignore.

          *includes populous identified as Latino/Hispanic.

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        • It’s funny you should mention Israel, there everyone is trained in using guns during ACTIVE SERVICE AS TEENAGERS, are in the armed reserves for life. Perhaps the problem isn’t the guns, it’s training!

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    2. Not one of you douchnozzles noticed that it states West Germany?

      (According to the poster above, perhaps thats because there were no people of the dark sun in East Germany? heh)

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    3. Oddly…it doesn’t state how many of the dead were criminals who were in the process of committing a crime…or maby not so odd. Maby this is trying to push an agenda and doesn’t care about telling the truth behind those statistics.

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      • So why are there so may criminals in America?

        I mean I’m not sure what you are saying. Are you saying that there are way more criminals in the USA (if so then why?) or are you saying all those other countries in the poster should be KILLING more criminals?

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    4. Yes KILL the insane, KILL the criminals, KILL the poor and desperate! they are shit people anyway

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    5. The statistics are misleading. Only 8 of how many countries are listed? that’s called cherry picking. Only picking the ones that support your agenda. Also the numbers are pretty meaningless without reference information on crime. Are you trying to suggest that 10,000 people in the US, just for the fuck of it, decided to go out and randomly shoot people?

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    6. How come Norway wasn’t listed, or any of the other countries that have had horrific murders?

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    7. The U.S. has better marksmanship…

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    8. 6 year old image using 20+ year old figures. As long as we’re using outdated figures to make a point, let’s use the figures from 1944. ZOMG France has a gun problem!

      Seriously though, anyone wanting to make a point about gun problems in the U.S is welcome to use current figures, listing countries that, you know… still exist.

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    9. That’s why I have a shotgun, I don’t want to make some scumbag just another handgun statistic.

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    10. I think everyone should be given a gun, and what ever drugs they want, heroin, crack whatever; because, hey Drugs dont kill people, people kill people.

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    11. Wow I didnt know that firearms are rising up and killing people like vehicles did in Maximum Overdrive. All this time I thought it was the person using the firearm. If we are going to blame the object (because it isnt like we have had mass slayings by knives,bows etc)are we going to blame silverware for obesity?

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      • The reply to that would be, if he didnt have the gun this may not have happened.
        The funny thing about all this is the statement;
        Guns dont kill people, people kill people. Then why make it easy for people to kill each other? They obviously cant be trusted.
        The weapon is just a tool that allows even an idiot the ability to kill without too much effort.
        Therefore some sort of weapon control is needed because of a minority.
        This is what is called logic. You should try it sometime.

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        • Hence my comment about bows and knives both of which have been used in mass attacks this year. The reality is this: if someone is going to snap and attack a bunch of people it can be done with any weapon or item capable of being used as such. A better move would be to include a history of mental disorder on the background check.Does a firearm make it easier? Yes and no.A skilled archer can put almost as many arrows out there as a semi automatic weapon. Its also silent. To me the bow attack was far more terrifying because of that.

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          • Your comparison is invalid.
            Someone using a bow, needs to
            have some skill in order to use if effectively, I know I shoot recurve.
            A knife is not a ranged weapon and therefore someone wielding it is more easily dealt with.
            Virtually any moron can pick up a gun and use it, you just put the bullets in then point and click.
            I say to everyone who is against gun control, is one child’s life worth you being able to own a handgun?
            I am not American, I don’t really understand this obsession with owning a firearm, it’s obviously engrained in your national psyche, and am sure someone could have a field day with the reasons why, but that’s another story. But what I, and I am sure the majority of the rest of the Western World can’t understand is this rabid determination to continue to support the NRA and fight gun control in the light of what keeps happening.
            If gun control had been brought in after Columbine , the tragedies that have occurred since may not have happened, notice I say may….but would that not have been worth it? The lives of all those how have died since, especially those poor children. Or is this an acceptable loss as far as the Gun Lobby is concerned. And if it is then theres something broken with American because it certainly would not be the case with somewhere like Europe, of which I am a resident.
            You need to make the rest of the world understand why you let this continue to happen, and I am sad to say if you can give a good enough reason then your country will continue to tarnish its reputation and your future, you children and young men and women will continue to die in senseless acts of violence.

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            • ask the Israelis if people will resort to other means to accomplish their goals

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            • sometimes you have to thin the herd, and how did that gun control work out in Norway?

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            • actually none of the guns in the columbine shootings would have been in cluded in any ban, no assault rifles or high capacity magazines and the did a lot more shooting

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            • Not trying to be offensive, but you really show your ignorance about fire arms in your post. I’ve seen people miss their target at only 3 meters under a no stress situation (If you want to know why. I can tell you in detail why, many people who have no firearm training are horrible shots at point blank, much less at range). It is not as simple as picking up the gun and pulling the trigger. That right there tells me you speak from the point of view of someone who has never handled a firearm. If someone said shooting a bow was as easy as picking up the bow notching an arrow, and pulling back, would you not call bullshit on their incredibly inaccurate account for using a bow?

              As for our “obsession” with firearms goes, many of us enjoy range shooting, and competition with our firearms. Don’t forget that bow you use is a weapon as well. It’s purpose when it was first made was to kill, and it’s use as a weapon killed millions since its invention (recently here in the US you wont see it blasted on the news because it wasn’t a gun. But a a man in Wyoming killed his dad’s live in girlfriend with a knife, then went to the school where his dad taught, and shot and killed his dad with an arrow to the head from a bow, then used a knife to off himself.) Anything you can put your hands on has been used as a weapon.

              Our problem here in the states has nothing to do with gun ownership. Blaming a inanimate object is down right pants on head retarded. Our problem is both a social issue, and a mental health issue. It can be summed up in one word. Greed. “The weak are meat, and the strong shall eat” That pretty much sums it up. When people have a good education, a home, a good paying job, and are healthy then all is great. When they don’t that is when there are problems. We have allot of people with mental illness here who are not receiving help. We have a wealth gap that keeps increasing at the same time the middle class keeps shrinking. When people get desperate from the rushing feeling of no hope, and no future that is when many break. Some just kill themselves. Some kill their whole family. And some who are very mentally unstable, and are either mad at the world, or delusional with wanting their name remembered, do something like killing children. Banning guns ignores the problem. It is like bailing a sinking boat without fixing the hole that is sinking the boat. You can bail and bail and bail, but if you don’t plug the hole that is sinking you, then soon you will be overwhelmed and resting on the bottom. Ignoring the real problem just sinks you faster. Our country has a real problem, and it isn’t with guns. Guns are but a tool. A deadly tool yes, but just one of many that people will pick up when they have no hope left.

              Give people hope, and happiness. Stop this runaway greed that is taking place. Stop going to war, and focus on schools. Rebuild our education system with the money we spend on war. Stop giving million, and billionaires tax cuts It does not lead to job growth (the whole reason for giving them the tax cuts). Stop the shrinking of the middle class. Start helping the mentally ill. Give people hope for a future. These are some of the things that will lower crime in this country.

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        • timothy mcveigh didn’t need a gun and the IRA did a lot damage without guns

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        • guns also allow those less physically capable or out numbered to defend themselves.

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    12. That’s a nice looking revolver, though!

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    13. IM FAMOUS I AM THE KING YOU WILL BOW TO ME, BOW TO ME NOW. AND EAT LOTS OF POOP RUB IT ALL OVER YOUR FACE. IM WOOPIE GOLDBURGH!!!!

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    14. There hasn’t been a West Germany for over twenty years.

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    15. You Anti-Gun freaks are just the dumbest people I have ever heard! “cant be trusted” what kind of shit is that? Why do you people want ever part of youre life controlled? I dont get. Dont you want to live free? Youre worried about guns but our goverment is taking rights away from us left and right. the U.N. wants to make laws over US Citizens!(Agenda 21) Wake the FUCK UP!

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    16. I’m from Germany and i never had a gun in my live. Still i’m feeling somewhat free and surprisingly save.

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    17. My dad has had a handgun for more than 40 years I’ve never seen him have to restrain it from jumping up and killing someone.

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    18. Dirk why am I not surprised that you support Israel and have a problem with minorities, you are giving casemods a run for his money in the scumbag race.

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      • first, you’re assuming that I support Israel which is not what the conversation was nabout but whatever, second why would you assume I have a problem with minorities? because populations as large and as diverse as America’s are going to have more crime. that’s fact deal with it , the restaurant I work for has been robbed 4 times , all 4 were black men robbing chinese men so which minority are you talking about . please don’t assume everyone on the internet is a simple minded racist fucktard like you ,it exposes your lack of culture.

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    19. so you’re saying the newtown shooting wasn’t ?

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    20. People kill people. Handgun is just a method. If people want to kill people, they will find another method, even if there are no guns at all. In cave days they would use a rock and bash a persons head in. Let’s outlaw rocks too. People are so damn dumb, and getting dumber every day.

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