WTF America?

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    Wildman7316
    Guest
    Wildman7316

    Let us ignore for the moment that, for the most part, selling of Natural Resources to other Countries (such as Oil for Norway and Hydroelectric for Sweden) finances the Government Largesse. What you find is that (like the Middle East) you have a large number of “Highly Educated” People who end up working menial jobs (if they can find jobs) because EVERYBODY is “Highly Educated”. Know a person in Norway with a Masters Degree in Literature who runs a Cash Register. When I asked him why he got a Masters in Literature instead of a Sciences Degree that would have… Read more »

    crewmanguy
    Member

    I see your point about the field of the degree you choose, it’s why I haven’t bothered to get a masters in political science, no real monetary value there. As much as I enjoy the topic, it’s not putting food on the table.
    However, consider the following:

    There are people who racked upwards of $120,000 in student loans, got law degrees, passed their bar exams and can’t get a job.
    www.thebestcolleges.org/law_school_bubble/
    management.fortune.cnn.com/2011/08/31/law-grads-take-their-job-frustrations-to-court/

    $40,000 doesn’t even begin to cover undergrad costs anymore, forget going for anything above a bachelors.
    www.usatoday.com/money/economy/story/2012-06-13/college-costs-surge/55568278/1
    www.collegedata.com/cs/content/content_payarticle_tmpl.jhtml?articleId=10064

    Luminary
    Member
    Luminary

    I totally agree with this, but I’d even be willing to give that public education thing a try. You get a free ride – IF you want to learn something that might actually benefit the people paying for it, like engineering, medicine, chemistry.

    BUT: You drop out or don’t actually work in your chosen field afterwards, you’re paying us back. Every cent, with interest.

    Women’s studies? Literature? Art History? Cash up front!

    crewmanguy
    Member

    This makes sense. I’d only adjust it to say that if you can’t find work in your field, payback might not be necessary.

    Luminary
    Member
    Luminary

    No, it is. If you study a field that’s already oversaturated, that’s your problem. We’re only actually paying for your ride if you actually show results.

    outlanderssc
    Member

    Easy enough to have the government offer scholarships in areas of high need or demand and require say, ten years work in that field. The TV show “Northern Exposure” was about just such a program. Not all that uncommon. But you need to supply an out if the market shifts and there are no longer any jobs in that area once the person completes training.

    Luke Magnifico
    Member

    But then you end up with the people who don’t have high-paying jobs having huge debt while the people who make big money are home free.

    I thankfully live in a country w/ free education. I only pay the “student contribution”, ~€2000. But if you said to me “Sure, go to college, we’ll pay for it, , but if you fuck up you’re going to owe us tens of thousands” I wouldn’t take the risk.

    Mike
    Guest
    Mike

    Instead of telling us what is wrong with our country, which we all already know, tell us how to do something about it. Because believe it or not, most of us do want to do something about it but have no idea how or what to do about it.

    crewmanguy
    Member

    This is how you do something about it:
    Demand change to the system, insist on lowering the cost of higher education. Call your politicians starting at the state level, (State Senate, Governor, etc) and Federal (Representatives, Senators, President) and tell them what you want. Let them know that a vote for this or proposing a bill for this earns your support and vote, and that doing nothing costs them your vote.
    Make sure you follow through by voting accordingly showing your support.

    Luminary
    Member
    Luminary

    Translation: Stomp your foot and yell that you want other people’s money.

    crewmanguy
    Member

    Calling your elected officials and making your voice heard and your intentions to do something about it known is a lot better then stomping your foot.
    The money is already there, we just have to give to the people instead of the banks. As long as you pay taxes, it’s your money too, so if your not ok with the way it’s being spent, you can tell them that too.

    Luminary
    Member
    Luminary

    WTF? Trillions of govt debt and you have the nerve to say “the money is there”? The money is not there. Hasn’t been anywhere near “there” for about a hundred years.

    crewmanguy
    Member

    Your right, let me rephrase that to say: they’ve already spending the money, we just have to spend the money on the people instead of the banks.
    We did have a balanced budget under Clinton, if we had maintained that, we might not have the deficit we do now.

    crewmanguy
    Member

    *they’re already spending… not they’ve

    Luminary
    Member
    Luminary

    Still wrong. They should stop spending the money. Because they don’t have it. Never did. Never will.

    Luke Magnifico
    Member

    The fact of the matter is that even now, in the depths of your debt, your government spent about a quarter of the budget on jets and guns. It doesn’t matter if you have the money or not, it’s being spent, so why not spend some of it on education instead.

    There’s about 20 million students currently attending college in the States. If you gave every single one of those people $30,000 you’d still be coming in more than 100 billion dollars under your military expenditure.

    crewmanguy
    Member

    @Luminary:I’m not wrong, there is a budget, the problem is that the government spends with no regard to the budget. If you mean no spending outside the budget, then I agree we should stay within, but we just need to budget for education. If you mean no spending at all, then I disagree, the government has to provide services & Infrastructure for the people. Otherwise why have government?
    We can budget education costs for students into the budget, and take out subsides for things like Fannie May and/or Freddie Mac.

    gx5000
    Member

    That 77 Trillion in illegal offshore accounts ? Appropriate, create the jobs to rebuild the American infrastructure, done.

    notspamming
    Member

    Disregard crewmanguy, in this case he’s either naive, or one of them usefull idiots. Since we talking about America, how about that: “Voting from rooftops” thing ? As for “free” public education. It’s often free only in theory, and since they can’t charge you up front for studying, they charge you for anything else. As for the over-saturation, choosing wrong field. You’re right. So why does politicians, media, etc., encourage people to go to university, and shit, and uses the whole “you can be anyone\anything you want to be” propaganda ? As for “Eurolove” in general. Western Europe for decades… Read more »

    outlanderssc
    Member

    Not like we have anything like that in the US, with some states taking vastly more in federal resources than others. Never happen here, right?

    crewmanguy
    Member

    “Instead of telling us what is wrong with our country, which we all already know, tell us how to do something about it.”
    And you did the exact opposite.

    Wetwrks
    Guest
    Wetwrks

    Ya know…this all sounds good untill you start really looking at those countries. Denmark: According to newly revised statistics, Denmark had the world’s highest tax level in 2005 and 2006, at 50.7% and 49.1% respectively and also held this position 1970-74 and 1993-95. These figures do not include income from ownership. Finland: The middle income worker’s tax wedge is 46% (NationMaster) and effective marginal tax rates are very high.[13] Value-added tax is 23% for most items. Capital gains tax is 28% and corporate tax is 26%, about the EU median. Property taxes are low, but there is a transfer tax… Read more »

    fracked again
    Member

    Yeah. It sucks getting something for your taxes.

    Korinthian
    Member

    I guess living in a highly educated country with equality for all, cheap medical care and education, well maintained roads and infrastructure costs something.

    What Fracked said.

    EnemyOfTheCause
    Guest
    EnemyOfTheCause

    It is hard for Americans to get behind paying taxes when the taxes they pay go to fund a Government that misappropriates all that revenue.

    outlanderssc
    Member

    If by “Misappropriates” you mean “wastes on yet another WWII style aircraft carrier, yes”

    Lulz
    Guest
    Lulz

    Only way to change anything in the USA is stop voting for the oneparty system, same fucking coin and no change.

    dallasalice
    Member

    The EU is collapsing into total economic ruin and you folks are still touting it like it’s the way to go.

    Gotta love that.

    Korinthian
    Member

    Scandinavia + Finland does not equal the EU.

    Just thought I should make that clear.

    Wetwrks
    Guest
    Wetwrks

    They may not be part of the EU but they are all working under the same general financial model and we have already seen how that is working out.

    Posseidon
    Guest
    Posseidon

    Shows how much you know about that situation when the 4 countries mentioned have nothing to do with the Eurozone countries that are in flux. Not to mention that Norway aren’t even a part of the EU. The only reason the USA (yes I’m making an assumption on your nationality) is afloat is that it is too big to fail, y’all enjoy China owning the majority stake of the country soon.

    WistfulD
    Member

    As they say, if you owe the bank a hundred thousand, the bank owns you. If you owe the bank a hundred million, you own the bank. China and the U.S. are in a spiral–either a death spiral downwards or a success spiral upwards. Which it will be remains to be seen.

    Zeroro
    Member
    Zeroro

    Props to OP. Just reading american’s responses to that is hilarious. But I’d have bet someone will be shouting “Die you European communists !”. I’m a bit disappointed.
    Asking students to refund if their speciality is “saturated” is bright though. And who decide which job is saturated ? Wall Street ? Ha ha you guys…

    outlanderssc
    Member

    Especially when a field might be wide open when you start your training and saturated when you finish – kind of like “career gambling”

    WistfulD
    Member

    This has happened a number of times. The dot-com bubble left a bunch of people with associates degrees in web development. The 80s saw a glut of chemical and electrical engineers. Now law students are deferring their loan obligations because they are working as office drones at temp agencies for $14/hr. Even nurses (didn’t they say that as the country aged we would have an insurmountable need for nurses) have to be not-too-choosey when it comes to where they will be working when they graduate. Predicting what job will be in high demand 4-8 years from now is not an… Read more »

    guest
    Guest
    guest

    This is hilarious. Did you know that just about anyone who’s become a millionaire in the field of computers (e.g. Bill Gates) is a college dropout? Do you know why? Because everything that has to do with computers changes too fast and you have to be really good at learning on your own to survive in the field. And here’s the tiny detail: what the f**k is preventing you from learning ON YOUR OWN without having to rack up $40,000 in student loans? Oh yeah, I forgot, you’re functionally retarded and can’t understand anything unless someone spends six months explaining… Read more »

    outlanderssc
    Member

    Yeah, that’s why I plan on becoming a neurosurgeon by studying on my own. I’ve found lots of good books on the subject. Care to be my first patient?

    Korinthian
    Member

    Someone has been watching Good Will Hunting (understandable).

    Sure, you could basically learn a whole lot without going to school, but degrees do matter as a mark of assurance to the people that buy your services afterwards.

    Also, if you’re going into the medical field people might frown on you digging up dead bodies to further your self-education.

    gx5000
    Member

    Dude, Gates was another Million Dollar baby that couldn’t fail, so if it hadn’t been computers it would have been something else. Him and Trump are sons of multi Millionaires…enough said !

    crewmanguy
    Member

    Most jobs require a degree to attain them. Not everyone is cut out to be an entrepreneur. That’s really the only way to succeed as a self taught anything.

    WistfulD
    Member

    While in theory I agree with a lot of what the OP has said, I would like to point out one thing: Norway has never complained that the U.S. spends more than the next 14 highest spenders on military infrastructure when they benefit from the fact that (for the most part, stay away from the Somali coast) oil tankers can circumnavigate the globe, and sell their commodities to any port that will have them, safely. During the 20th century, the U.S. and the U.S.S.R. spent their own money to make a world where international trade was safe, easy, and affordable.… Read more »

    DaftFiddle
    Member

    A note to fellow Europeans: If you were American, and you knew your government was misappropriating your tax dollars, would you want to pay higher tax?

    Wetwrks
    Guest
    Wetwrks

    The other part of this that one needs to examine is the US prison system. Yes it is a HUGE financial expendature but lets look at who all is incarcerated:

    In 1980, our federal and state prisons housed fewer than 9,000 criminal aliens. By the end of 1999, these same prisons housed over 68,000 criminal aliens. Today, criminal aliens account for over 29 percent of prisoners in Federal Bureau of Prisons facilities and a higher share of all federal prison inmates. These prisoners represent the fastest growing segment of the federal prison population.

    DaftFiddle
    Member

    Because being Mexican is now a crime in Alabama.

    Coolerking
    Guest
    Coolerking

    The answer is because none of you other crappy nations will police the world. We have to police it, protect it, fight for it, and die for it. That’s why we don’t have a better more subsidized education system, healthcare etc…It’s because the world is a VERY dangerous place and we’re the only ones with the nuts to keep it going.

    Gerry
    Guest
    Gerry

    Yeah, you really want to live in a country where the tax rate is 60%+ and everyone has free degrees to the point where you need at least a Masters to drive a taxi cab…

    Make higher education worthless and the degrees won’t be worth the paper they are printed on.

    jpmct
    Guest
    jpmct

    I’m happy to have earned my own education, found my own job and have my government protect me rather than feed me.

    Obviously (and sadly) that seems to be an odd concept to many of you.

    What are you all going to do when the money runs out?

    Luke Magnifico
    Member

    Protect you from what? The terrorists they pissed off in the first place?

    jpmct49
    Guest
    jpmct49

    Did you think that one up yourself?

    Sadly, I suspect that you did.

    Normally I’d enjoy a battle of wits, but not with someone who is unarmed.

    Korinthian
    Member

    That unarmed bit, did you think that one up yourself?

    Oh.

    outlanderssc
    Member

    One of the easiest indicators of an idiot is someone who thinks everyone else is an idiot.

    Korinthian
    Member

    Another indication that someone is an idiot is when everyone else thinks he is one.

    outlanderssc
    Member

    But the idiots never recognize that, thinking everyone else is an idiot and therefor incompetent to judge them

    outlanderssc
    Member

    *Therefore



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