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fortyseven
Member

I tried that argument, and then they came back with a witty “Okay, I’ll follow your scientific methods but, you gotta follow my biblical quote method afterwards” Which was a premise to draw you in to the “miracle” of God eg that circular argument that’s actually a logical fallacy: The bible is true => because god’s word is infallible => Therefore the bible is true => Because god’s word is infallible I say, just take a stance, say thank you but no thanks, and sidestep the whole argument, should they insist (jehovah’s witness’ foot in my door!!) then offer the… Read more »

Marrock
Member

Some time ago a witless tried the foot in the door thing with me… I’m willing to bet my bootprint is still in the middle of his chest. He got three warnings, that’s more than most would give them… I told him next time one of them tried something like that I was going to keep the foot. They still didn’t quite take the hint so few days later I hung a goat skull on my front door that you couldn’t see till you came up the steps, used to be fun watching them make it to the steps and… Read more »

bstaples
Member

you guys are so cool.

Marrock
Member

Nah, I just don’t like people trying to tell me their imaginary friends are better than my imaginary friends.

PetreShmafalafsky
Member

“I hope I never get so old I get religious.” – Ingrid Bergman

compasseagle89
Member

i think saying the “burden of proof lies on religion” is not terribly accurate. a huge cornerstone of the christian belief (and perhaps others) is faith. and once you scientifically prove something, you are no longer operating with faith.

im not sure what the best statement would be, but you cant really prove something that is, inherently, unprovable or else it changes.

Marrock
Member

Or, to quote Douglass Adams: The argument goes like this: “I refuse to prove that I exist,” says God, “for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing.” “But,” says Man, “The Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn’t it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don’t. QED.” “Oh dear,” says God, “`I hadn’t thought of that,” and promptly disappears in a puff of logic. “Oh, that was easy,” says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and gets himself… Read more »

Evilcritter
Member

That zebra crossing thing confused me when I was younger. I didn’t realize it was a UK term for crosswalk.

Kishi
Member

Yeah, when I was a kid I just assumed that it meant he got trampled to death by zebras.

The Matrix: Rebooted
Member

This is essentially a version of the special pleading logical fallacy because it only applies to argument about god and religion. There’s really no other factual claim that is diminished by having evidence.

AY! Eat Ya Veggies!
Member
AY! Eat Ya Veggies!

I’m Agnostic because I believe it is impossible to know anything definitively Everything except my previous statement…maybe.

The Matrix: Rebooted
Member

It’s impossible to know ANYTHING definitively?? Are you equally ambivalent about Santa Claus and the Easter bunny?

fortyseven
Member

Careful, he’s trollbaiting

You never know when he bursts out with a kant’s catergorical imperative and gangrapes your skull with two other deontologists

deuce
Member

Theological noncognitivists ftw.

Reaver
Member

Fagggg

Phyreblade
Member

I think they forgot to add that they are not Atheists because it makes them feel superior to those annoying, dumb trusting little theists who have no respect for the scientific process.

Or maybe they didn’t. Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

Phyreblade
Member

Phail troll attempt is phail.

conan776
Member

Just follow Jesus’s teachings and you’ll see that God exists. ez game, imo. 😉

Corman
Member

There’s more historical evidence that Santa Clause exists than for Jesus ever having existed

fortyseven
Member

Ah, clever
But proving Santa existing doesn’t disprove Jesus not-existing.

ItalianDragn
Member

Really? there is plenty non-religious evidence for Christ.

The Matrix: Rebooted
Member

Not really. There’s a mention by Josephus, but he was born after Jesus supposedly died, so it’s just hearsay.

fracked again
Member

Name one contemporary, non gospel/bible source that mentions Jesus.

One.

Evilcritter
Member

Whether Jesus really existed or not is irrelevant. Sure, he seemed like a nice guy, and more reasonable than the other men of his time, but religious delusions are common among the insane.
Just ’cause he says he’s the son of god don’t make it so.

ItalianDragn
Member

Lord, Liar, or Lunatic? Even those who are not persuaded by Christianity often have great respect for Jesus. Among those who reject the idea that Jesus was God incarnate, there are many who are nevertheless followers of him to some degree. “Jesus was a great moral teacher”, some say, “but he wasn’t God”. According to this view, Jesus is to be followed as a great human being, but not as a divine one. This idea that Jesus was merely a great human being, i.e. a great human being but nothing more, is, as C.S. Lewis argued in Part 2 of… Read more »

fracked again
Member

Could you at least bother putting things in your own words, you piece of fuck? Jesus was a mediocre teacher of ethics and morals at best. He did not suggest changing the laws of slavery, or of elevating the position of women to more than chattel (though he supposedly was nicer to them than others). In fact, with all the disgusting laws springing forth from the bronze age Hebrews, he said that none should change. He said that you should turn the other cheek, lie down and take oppression, because he’d be back soon and bring his daddy. Now, where… Read more »

ItalianDragn
Member

The following are early extra-biblical references to Jesus and/or Christians by non-Christian writers (in some cases, Christian writers are quoting non-Christian writers’ references to Jesus). Quotes are copied from the accompanying links, unless otherwise noted. Within the text of the article, authors’ names are links to encyclopedia articles about them. References Josephus Tacitus Suetonius Julius Africanus Origen Pliny the Younger Josephus (A.D. 37 – c. A.D. 100) Josephus’ Antiquities (early 2nd century A.D.) refers to Jesus in two separate passages. The common translation of the first passage, Book 18, Ch. 3, part 3, is disputed and is most likely from… Read more »

ItalianDragn
Member

And once again I am drawn into an argument with someone who has no interest in challenging preconceived notions, not matter that there is evidence to the contrary. Even if the evidence proves insufficient to change you ideals there is no reason to resort to name calling. I merely shows the low quality of your character, and removes any weight from your position.

I am more than happy to discussion and Challenge my knowledge and beliefs. But there is no point in arguing with someone whose response is comprised of insults and lacking in facts and proof.

fracked again
Member

Your evidence is bad, dishonest and fraudulent.

Provide good evidence, and then we can communicate as equals. Until then, you are naught but a repeater of lies. Isn’t there a commandment about that?

fracked again
Member

So Christians existed, but NONE of these are contemporary (do you even know what that word means?) evidence of Jesus. In fact, the Jocephus passage is a fraud, as early copies of that text do not include the text that you quote. Investigate these things before you try to push them. You only hurt your religion when you just repeat easily disproved lies.

You lose.

And I’ll quit insulting you with words when you quit insulting me with your ignorance.

fracked again
Member

And fuck you once more for handing more copypasta instead of linking.

www.rationalchristianity.net/jesus_extrabib.html

You do nothing but repeat and plagiarize. You have no ethics.

ItalianDragn
Member

w/e, just been ½assing this

How about a paper I wrote in College (ITT Tech) that I got a 95% on?

docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0Ac8wUd-rAUGSZGZzOGR3a2ZfMzJoZmJrMmY&hl=en

fracked again
Member

Really, half? I’d say at most its a quarter assed attempt.

If it were a draft, I’d give you a C and send you back to do more research on archeology. And careful copying does not mean that something really happened. But I expect more of my students than ITT does when it comes to accuracy. What kind of class was it? English comp?

You still have not managed to find a legitimate contemporary non biblical source.

Evilcritter
Member

ID, this is what’s called throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Just because he was a loon, does not mean he didn’t have some good things to say. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.
Hang on, can I fit any more well-worn sayings in here? Nope. I think I’m done.

bstaples
Member

Any creationist worth his weight in bible pages would point you to the marvels of creation as, at the very least, proof of a vastly intelligent designer and constructor. You can set your watch to the clockwork of the human body. The sheer amount of perfectly ordered processes working in harmony that allow for you to waste it and jack off to /b/ is nothing less than amazing. You choose to turn a blind eye to that, label it chance, then ask for more proof. That’s your business. You don’t apply “burden of proof” to your own beliefs. Prove atoms… Read more »

Shanghai_Factor
Member

Staples you best be trollin’.

fortyseven
Member

strawman argument errday

fracked again
Member

Yeah, the human body is incredibly poorly put together. The world around us is not evidence of a careful godling, but one who is extremely careless and unconcerned with needless suffering.

And should you like to find evidence of the things you are asking for, open a science text book, read through the evidence, best explanations, etc etc before you start acting as though scientists don’t have any evidence based ideas regarding abiogenesis or the process of evolution.

tl;dr fucking magnets

Phyreblade
Member

From what I’ve observed, it seems like most of the physiological weaknesses we see in most living things are simply necessary compromises in order to allow organisms to survive in conditions they are most likely to encounter.

But you have voiced an interesting take on the construction of the human body. Can you elaborate more on why you believe the human body is so poorly constructed? And do you find this true of all life as well?

fracked again
Member

Yeah. All life is faulty. Evolution produces good enough to survive and reproduce, not perfection. The human eye has blind spots and is wired backwards, with the light detection cells facing away from the lens, and nerve fibers and blood vessels within the eyeball. This produces blind spots which require special decoding of information in order to produce a patchless field of vision. This system also lends itself to detached retinas as well. Our upright gait leads to back problems, roids, herias, etc. Our genome is also filled with errors. We have a non functional gene for an enzyme that… Read more »

Phyreblade
Member

Good points. So what reasons can you think of that allowed these traits to survive?

fracked again
Member

Yeah, they aren’t severe enough to prevent survival to reproduction. To maintain population size, its very easy, even with harsh conditions to maintain a human population.

Fen
Member

Anyone who uses ‘proof’ in the context of scientific theory is a fucking mong. You are conflating the 17th century sense of the word with the modern, formal proof.

You cannot prove scientific theories, and this is no criticism. There are only greater or lesser degrees of confirmation. And the neo-Darwinian synthesis is fantastically well confirmed.

Ignore anyone who says evolution is not ‘proven’ or ‘provable’; they haven’t a clue.

#makecasemdsgreatagain
Member

*fast breathing from running* shi..aah..shit…..dammmfuck… shit storm.

conan776
Member

You made water come out my nose

And it turned into wine! 😮

Oh, wait, nosebleed nevermind….

ItalianDragn
Member

If you are a product of chance, your brain is also a product of chance. Therefore, the thought patterns that determine your logic are also prodcts of chance. If your logic is the result of a change process, you can’t be sure that it evolved properly. You can’t be sure you’re even asking the right question because you can’t trust your own logic. -Ken A. Ham B.Ap.Sc., Dip.ed Of course your missing the whole thing of the Scientific method… You can’t even prove where Obama was born scientifically. You have to use historic documents to prove Hawaii vs Kenya. Remember,… Read more »

Shanghai_Factor
Member

Evolution != chance. It’s amazing how many people don’t get that.

Evilcritter
Member

Yes. Random mutation. Evolution is _driven_ by chance, but the bad mutations die and the good ones get passed on. That’s how we get order from chaos. Fans of intelligent design can’t seem to grasp this, even though it is beautiful in its simplicity.
Fucking idiots.

ItalianDragn
Member

“LET ME EXPLAIN THE problem science has with Jesus Christ.” The atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then asks one of his new students to stand. “You’re a Christian, aren’t you, son?” “Yes, sir.” “So you believe in God?” “Absolutely.” “Is God good?” “Sure! God’s good.” “Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?” “Yes.” “Are you good or evil?” “The Bible says I’m evil.” The professor grins knowingly. “Ahh! THE BIBLE!” He considers for a moment. “Here’s one for you. Let’s say there’s a sick person over here and you can cure him. You can do it.… Read more »

The Matrix: Rebooted
Member

That a cute story, but it never actually happened. Just like most things that Christians believe.

Drunkin
Member

That was a very long way to say “I’m right you’re wrong.” With a reply of “No you.”

bstaples
Member

You guys actually read that? ballsy.

The Matrix: Rebooted
Member

I’ve read the same story before on snopes.com

fortyseven
Member

strawman argument errrday

fortyseven
Member

Cute story about the lack of a brain, i mean, downplaying medical findings to mere semantic wordplay?

typical christian

ItalianDragn
Member

it merely shows the limitations of proving something via the “scientific method”

sometimes you just have to take things on “faith” no matter your “belief system”.

ItalianDragn
Member

face it… they have traced all humanity to a common ancestor…. aka, Eve.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve

so think… Eve… then the Flood, it does talk about a “Adam” that lived after Eve…. maybe Noah?

have fun.

fracked again
Member

FFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU You fucking illiterate, intentionally stupid, pridefully ignorant moron. Do you work at being so blindingly dumb? “have fun” You aren’t clever, you sad little fuckwit. Why do you accept this bit of scientific evidence, but not the evidence connecting humans to other hominids, the anthropoid apes, and all the way back to sinapsids, then amphibians and fish? We could easily keep going. Why is a mitochondrial Eve acceptable as a product of science, but evolution is not? Because you are a hopeless idiot. You actually quoted that fucktard and professional liar and scam artist Ken Ham. Evolution is not… Read more »

Evilcritter
Member

I love you, fracked again. I was going to reply as well, but my reply was merely going to be “you are painfully stupid.” I like your reply better.
People get all pissy at athiests who are vocal. We’re vocal because it’s impossible not to be frustrated by idiocy.

fracked again
Member

😉

ItalianDragn
Member

Considering I had the chance a few years ago to talk to some Geologists and Archeologists who set out to prove Christianity wrong via their chosen science and then end up becoming Christians, or at least supporters of Intelligent design, I feel there is enough evidence to support the history shown in the bible. And btw, you would not have proved SCIENTIFICALLY where Obama came from, that would be Historically. You would be examining historic documents, not replicating an observable phenomenon. Its ok though, its a pretty common mistake. As it is, there are people with evidence that the document… Read more »

fracked again
Member

Ital, you are a liar and scoundrel. I have no reason to believe your claim of converted scientists. It sounds like you are just repeating something from Lee Strobel, another professional liar for Jesus who claims, quite unconvincingly, to be a former atheist. Further more, intelligent design is disproved by looking at any part of the body. The heart seems amazing until you realize that it is based on a very simple reptilian design and has no backup circulation mechanism to ensure that a small blockage is not fatal. This is a mistake that no semi intelligent engineer would make,… Read more »

ItalianDragn
Member

Just because you choose not to belive my first hand account, does not mean there is a need to insult. A simple “I Don’t believe you” would have sufficed. But I forgot, you believe that we are just anotherr step in the evolutionary chain and there is no such thing as morality. There is just the “Law of the Jungle” in that the strongest mutation will survive. I choose to look at the evidence and believe differently. Your links still only show evolution w/in a species. Just because they cannot breed with each other does not mean they are a… Read more »

Evilcritter
Member

A moral code is one of the easiest things to explain from an evolutionary standpoint. It’s not unique to humans. All social animals have “morals”, otherwise they wouldn’t be able to function as a social unit. Try giving treats to one dog and nothing to another who is watching. The neglected dog knows very well that he has been treated unfairly. Humans with no social conscience are ostracized, imprisoned, executed. Therefore, they are less likely to pass on their genes. You think morals come from a magical, invisible, impossible to detect being? If that were so, wouldn’t we all just… Read more »

fracked again
Member

You aren’t lying? Then your buds were shitty scientists with poor capacity for detecting baloney. You don’t get to just believe differently and ignore evidence that is unhelpful to you. Also, you are a liar. I do not believe that there is no such thing as morality, but rather that morality and religion are separate. Beyond that, I am more moral than Jesus, in that I condemn slavery and support standing up against oppression, and I am more moral that YHWH as I both condemn slavery and consider rape as a means of marriage proposal to be evil. I also… Read more »

Phyreblade
Member

Atheists have just as much right to be vocal as the religious folks, however, I’m just not entirely sure why you all have to be so angry. And antagonizing too. To me, it’s almost like yelling at a dog because it doesn’t understand how a cats mind works. Insults and yelling is not going to make it any clearer…

fracked again
Member

Well, some people are very worthy/easy/dumb/begging for it targets. Also, the intertubes have a tendency to draw out the predator in some and the helpless baby antelope with a bum leg and googly eye.

ItalianDragn
Member

Since you didn’t like my links to a creationist website… how about Harvard? adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1981ApJ…248.1144G I have to say that you have made some good arguments (in between your degrogatory comments) that have caused me to take a renewed interest in all this. I love finding things like that the current gravatational energy of the planets in our solar system are consistent with a approx 6,000 year old universe. I also find it interesting that Saturn and Juter are putting off more energy that could be accounted for by just reflecting light from the Sun. Some other things I just pasted… Read more »

fracked again
Member

If you were actually interested in learning things instead of just repeating the lies of creationists, you would do simple google searches to find out if the things you are saying are correct or not. So what if Harvard has a webpage supporting a short term (in geological time) minor shrinkage in the sun? It says nothing about the fact that other stars have been observed shrinking and expanding and our star likely follows similar patterns. I’ll reply to the rest of your idiocy later. You can try to take the high road by whining about my insults, but I’ll… Read more »

fracked again
Member

ID. Either start paraphrasing these arguments and quit cutting and pasting from creationist midden heaps or get the fuck out. Until you do this, I will continue to call you out for being a disrespectful rotting piece of cum stained fecal matter, drying in the sun, only to be eaten by flies, vomited forth again and swallowed once more to be shat out in its original form. As long as you disrespect me by putting forth copied and pasted lies, offering no good faith effort to try to find just one strong piece of evidence by fact checking, I will… Read more »

Metathiax
Member
Metathiax

No one cares what you or anyone else believes, to think so is idiocy please stop posting crap about why you are this or that. because I certainly don’t want to see it and I don’t think I am alone. Keep your beliefs to the one person who actually cares about them your damn self.

ItalianDragn
Member

then y did you check out this picture? Any idiot is able to know that it would cause a debate

Metathiax
Member
Metathiax

I am old and cranky and wanted to express my displeasure with the stated picture. I didn’t read any of the other comments because they don’t apply to me. I do visit MCS quite often and I enjoy most of the content but when I find a picture stupid beyond all reason, I say so.

I thought that any Idiot would realize what I was trying to do. guess I was wrong.

conan776
Member

ooh, that would make a good meme!

Finn
Member

I’m an atheist because it scares away all the people I wouldn’t want to talk to anyhow.

Dreth
Member

I’M AN ATHEIST AND I DON’T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT THIS CUNT.

DMYTRIW WDS
Member

I’m an atheist because I believe the preoccupation of supernatural divinity is a fruitless endeavor.

Plus I went to Catholic school. You should have heard the shit they tried to get me to believe in.

Senshi
Member
Senshi

I’m an atheist because I don’t need to know why there is a big fiery ball in the sky and if I’ve angered it in some way. This is also the reason why I’m not a scientist either. My life has purpose because I give it one.

dieAntagonista
Guest

I’m an ist because.

dieAntagonista
Guest

Also my ism is strong and my curls are tight. That’s all, that’s it, good night.

fortyseven
Member

Mathematics is the only truth

dieAntagonista
Guest

It’s quite lovely that a number should tell me that. I’ll even look over the fact that you’re a prime number, which I don’t normally like.

Phyreblade
Member

For some reason the lyrics to the song “Fetts Vette” popped into my head when I read this…

TheLotusEater725
Member

Tl:dr

WAAAAAAAAAAH I DON’T WANT TO BACK UP MY BELIEFS!

HoChunk
Member

“Trying to reconcile religion with science is a mug’s game. Trying to reconcile scripture with science is a mug’s game, because science and faith are separate and irreconcilable ways of knowing. Science give you proof without certainty and faith gives you certainty without proof. From the religious perspective, the Invisible World is outside the realm of science whether it exists or not. From the scientific perspective, faith cheats. Every so often some jackleg theologian will see this or that scientific theory that seems to confirm a religious belief and will say to himself, “Ah ha! Science has come to support… Read more »

Evilcritter
Member

I like science _because_ it changes. Because it is open to change. Religion is not. It’s stagnant, and ignorant. Most religious people pride themselves on their religion’s long(ish) history, rather than being embarrassed that they are following a belief system fabricated by ignorant, bewildered, short-lived, flea-ridden fools.

Phyreblade
Member

I agree with HoChunks perspective on this almost exactly. And I can also see your point critter, but what happened to not throwing out the baby with the bathwater? Organized Religion itself is actually quite good for what it was intended for, which was to teach positive life lessons The angry among us might argue that it’s sole purpose is indoctrination and control, and they would also be partially right, though I would argue that every society does this in some way shape or form. Religion as a belief system, or series of texts, is stagnant, that I agree with,… Read more »

Phyreblade
Member

This thread has become chock full of all kinds of brilliant win. I love it!

ian356094
Member

I used to tell people that I was “agnostic” just so I wouldn’t hurt their feelings. Now I just say Atheist because now I don’t give a shit about their feelings.

Kishi
Member

I’m an atheist. Or maybe I’m not. If you never know, I’m happy that way, because I don’t really give a shit about pushing my beliefs on you and every other person I talk to.

Evangelism is annoying as fuck, whether it’s for or against religion.

Evilcritter
Member

I’m opposed to stupid people. I can’t help it that creationists and believers of intelligent design fall into this category. I also hate politicians, child and animal abusers, thieves, psychopaths, and people who step on bugs because they think they are icky. And clowns. And mimes. Although Doug Jones is cool, even though he’s a religious mime (shudder).

Lareon
Member

how can people trust anything they’ve been fed by an organised religion. even Christianity’s rock “Jesus” is a stolen deity from an older Persian religion called Mithraism the religion was merged with Christianity to form a new Christianity by emperor Constantine who wished to keep his standing with the mithraists as well check out the similarities to jesus Mithras was born on December 25th He was considered a great travelling teacher and masters. He had twelve companions as Jesus had twelve disciples. Mithras also performed miracles Mithra was called “the good shepherd, “the way, the truth and the light, redeemer,… Read more »

ItalianDragn
Member

In checking out Mithras…. www.well.com/~davidu/mithras.html Owing to the cult’s secrecy, we possess almost no literary evidence about the beliefs of Mithraism. The few texts that do refer to the cult come not from Mithraic devotees themselves, but rather from outsiders such as early Church fathers www.newadvent.org/cathen/10402a.htm A similarity between Mithra and Christ struck even early observers, such as Justin, Tertullian, and other Fathers, and in recent times has been urged to prove that Christianity is but an adaptation of Mithraism, or at most the outcome of the same religious ideas and aspirations (e.g. Robertson, “Pagan Christs”, 1903). Against this erroneous… Read more »

Lareon
Member

your second source there is quite a biased one, especially as it’s a Christian website. mithra dates back to 1400bc which kinda shows it doesn’t borrow from Christianity (encyclopaedia Britannica) www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/386025/Mithra in ancient Indo-Iranian mythology, the god of light, whose cult spread from India in the east to as far west as Spain, Great Britain, and Germany. (See Mithraism.) The first written mention of the Vedic Mitra dates to 1400 bc. His worship spread to Persia and, after the defeat of the Persians by Alexander the Great, throughout the Hellenic world. In the 3rd and 4th centuries ad, the cult… Read more »

Phyreblade
Member

OK… So… Wait.
Are we saying the burden of proof doesn’t lie on religion?

HoChunk
Member

100 posts WOOHOO

bigsdiddy
Member
bigsdiddy

Some christian just shit in their pants. Even though I didn’t see it happen, I know it happened.

Miracle foresight? Or a lol god? Or chance?

acid_monkey
Member

ooo science seems to explain everything. 500 years ago probably did religion and before that some other shit. mmmmh.

nyoki
Member

Science doesn’t explain everything, just some things, w/in its purview. Religion has never explained anything.



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