God Less America

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    nyokkiPhyrebladeDrethCathyLongPuulaahi Recent comment authors
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    sutenvulf
    Member

    Oh! A buffet!

    TheMustardMan
    Member

    WHOA!

    i love antique shops!

    #makecasemdsgreatagain
    Member

    I need a new house.

    Luke Magnifico
    Member

    Wow! Cunningham are my favourite firm of realtors!

    KommissarKvC
    Member

    the sign tells the truth

    Puulaahi
    Member

    Why does there have to be one?

    nyoki
    Member

    I wonder if the B was removed by an act of god or if godless hooligans vandalized it.

    riverdaledragon
    Member
    riverdaledragon

    Sad but true

    Dreth
    Member

    At last the phrase has been fixed.

    Lockett
    Member
    Lockett

    God less America – one can only hope.

    Puulaahi
    Member

    This was taken in the bible belt.:)

    CathyLong
    Member

    @Lockett:
    I second that emotion. I don’t need a “god” to be a good person.

    Phyreblade
    Member

    @Lockett: @CathyLong: You know I have never seen the logic in that point of view… My experience has been that it is not ones belief in an all seeing deity (or the lack thereof) that makes people a person good or bad. it seems that it is inherently the nature of each individual, and how they interpret the world around them that determines whether they decide to be good or bad. Their paradignm of the world, whether religious or not, seems to seep into everything, including how they interpret their religious texts (if they are theist) or how they define… Read more »

    nyoki
    Member

    I think for the most part, this country has been a godless nation. Throughout most of its history, religion has not been invoked nor used as a reason for any given policy. The use of theistic language notwithstanding, w/ few exceptions, most arguments have been secular. I use religious terms all the time because they’re handy, vivid and understood by most, yet I am an atheist. Most people are not evil, regardless of their stand on religion and belief. Most people try to do good deeds, try to be a positive influence on those around them. Most people will try… Read more »

    Phyreblade
    Member

    @nyokki: I think the “recognizing evil” is the part where people seem to get tripped up. I find that while people, in general, do not want to be considered evil, they do evil things, and tell themselves they are doing good. And I’m not a pessimist or anything, but from what I’ve seen, I think it’s more accurate to say people don’t want to be thought of as evil. But the vast majority of them aren’t nice either, and the fact that a person may not want to be perceived as evil does not make it so. The more irritating… Read more »

    nyoki
    Member

    @Phyreblade: It is hard to recognize evil. It’s even harder to recognize your own evil-ness. Most people have a hard time being evil/mean/nasty face to face, but given any level of anonymity, it bleeds out of their pores, myself included. I don’t know how to deal w/ people that are always sure that they’re always right and good. Happily I don’t know any personally.

    Phyreblade
    Member

    @nyokki: That is an interesting observation. I’ve noticed that peoples true colors tend to show if they know they can get away with whatever they want with impunity. And if there is one thing the internet has taught me, it is that people will be A$$holes when given anonymity.

    This is what leads me to believe that people are basically evil, not good. Evil is the natural state of humanity, kept in check only by the possibility of consequences.

    OK, So let me ask you this. Why are you evil? Why do you do evil things, knowing that they are evil?

    Dreth
    Member

    Nothing is right or wrong, it’s all a matter of opinions.

    Phyreblade
    Member

    @Dreth: No, I disagree. It would be more accurate to say that no individual action is *inherently* wrong or right. However for every action, there is a scenario where it is wrong, and a scenario where it is right. There is a big difference between the concept of there being a complete absence of right/wrong, and that right and wrong are often highly subjective relative concepts that nonetheless still exist. My perspective is that just because a concept is a fabricated construct does not mean it cannot have an absolute frame of reference. Most people, if they actually think about… Read more »

    Dreth
    Member

    The only way you can say there’s some sort of instinct that tells apart the right and the wrong, is to completely prohibit any sort of influence that may trigger conscience or imitable behaviour.

    I don’t think it’ll ever happen because even in psychology, it’s unethical,

    Phyreblade
    Member

    @Dreth: I am not arguing that there is an instinct that defines right and wrong. Far from it. In fact I think the assumption that right and wrong could possibly be an instinctual knowledge is deeply flawed. I think the very opposite is true, left to our instincts alone, there would, in fact be no such thing as right or wrong. The only reason that the concept of right and wrong exists is because as humans, we have an ability that no other creature on the planet possesses. The ability to reason. Right and wrong cannot be coherently determined by… Read more »

    nyoki
    Member

    I don’t even see it (right and wrong) only as result of our ability to reason. It’s what happens when we decide to live in a society. A man alone on an island needs no morals. One must ask What does it mean to live as a man among other men? What principles do we all need to agree upon? Now, it is by reason that we ask these questions and answer them. Does a pack of wolves have individual virtues? I don’t know that I use the word evil to mean anything other than an act that does 95%+… Read more »

    nyoki
    Member

    PARAGRAPHS, NYOKKI! PARAGRAPHS!

    Phyreblade
    Member

    @nyokki: I disagree… I think right and wrong *has* to be about our ability to reason. I don’t think the ideas of right and wrong can be limited purely to our interaction with other humans. Evil actions can also be defined by how we treat other creatures, the earth, the environment, etc. A person who commits acts of cruelty to animals can be considered just as cruel as one who does so to humans, in spite of the fact that the concept of “evil” is foreign to an animal. it is their mindset that makes them evil. So clearly the… Read more »

    nyoki
    Member

    @Phyreblade: You’re saying that humans have the ability to be evil in a way other animals cannot, by virtue of our ability to reason? I can see that. Animals w/in a group also seem to have some ability to be good or evil, w/in the context of what’s good for the group. It certainly seems to be the case w/in primate groups and that would make some sense. This is why I believe it has to be a function of our ability to think, and not just a by-product of interacting with other thinking creatures. We don’t disagree on this.… Read more »

    Phyreblade
    Member

    @nyokki: Well I think you are making a similar argument, but not quite the same argument. Good and evil, from my perspective, would have no meaning to animals, because regardless of what they do, they do not use reason to determine their actions. They may use their intelligence to form action/result relationships, and even engage in behavior that could be harmful to the group or themselves. But they do not do so with a “big picture” understanding of what they are doing. They do not “reason”, they simply react to what their instincts tell them to do. It’s not quite… Read more »

    nyoki
    Member

    @Phyreblade: More or less. I think that it’s possible to abuse a person (usually a child) to the extent that logic is not part of their world. Logic doesn’t allow what’s happened to them, it has no meaning. We have to learn nearly everything. We’re not really tabula rasa, but we are certainly born w/ fewer instincts than any other animal. We have the capacity for reason, that doesn’t mean we’ve actually learned it. I would also say that evil comes from a lack of reason. Some evil people are evil because they’ve allowed their primitive brain to rule them.… Read more »

    nyoki
    Member

    Look ma…paragraphs! 🙂

    Phyreblade
    Member

    @nyokki: Oh Miracle of Miracles!! There be paragraphs here! 😛 🙂 But yes, I agree, good points about the effects of abuse. I think that some people who are abused do end up reverting to instinctual responses as a coping mechanism to handle what they see around them, and end up having that response so hard coded into their psyche, that they never learn how to objectively apply reason to any situation. Another interesting thing I found, I think I read a study about it, is that when people become angry, excessively emotional, or even obsessed with something, their IQ… Read more »

    nyoki
    Member

    @Phyreblade: We should teach a class on how to argue a point and reach relative agreement.

    Dreth
    Member

    That’d be a fucking boring class.

    We want, nay, we NEED chaos. It’s the only thing that keeps life interesting.

    nyoki
    Member

    @Dreth: Chaos only works when it’s defined as opposed structure.

    Phyreblade
    Member

    @nyokki:
    @Dreth:
    LOL yeah, a class might be fun, though I couldn’t help but wonder if Dreth was right about the possibility of it being boring as mud… 🙂

    Though I also agree that Chaos does not exist unless order exists… And I’d also add that I think it is variety, and not necessarily chaos, that makes life interesting. Even though variety is often a byproduct of chaos, variety can also be had even in order.

    For some reason people always seem to assume the opposite is *always* true…

    Dreth
    Member

    Variety is good. But then there’d be some butt-tard so ‘varied’ that he’ll think he’s among all the other variations and begin cussing them out and telling them they suck. Then the bigger group goes against the butt-tard, but then some of the same group see some benefits for the butt-tard’s radical, yet obstructed, thinking and will secede. There will be a battle and after the bigger group wins, they will wonder if it was worth it, some will make an organization for cherishing the fallen ones and bringing support, while there will be people in protest of using funds… Read more »

    nyoki
    Member

    Chaos is needed because we seem to have a need to not know how it’s going to end. We think we want to know, but are disappointed when we get it right, like it was too easy or something. If it’s easy, we get bored. If it’s simple we get bored. If it’s understood, we get bored. The unknown and our unease w/ it is somehow very important to our sense of well being.

    Phyreblade
    Member

    @Dreth: LOL ok then… @nyokki: Perhaps we are just looking at it differently, but my definition of order does not preclude the unknown or unpredictable. It simply organizes what is. If all that is required in order to preclude boredom is unpredictability, variety and/or the enigmatic, I’m not sure that chaos is a necessity. At least not in my paradigm of the universe anyway. 🙂 Order and organization is, at best, a good predictor of outcomes, not a precognitive tool. I do not believe that order requires absolute control, in fact I think that is impossible. But I could also… Read more »

    nyoki
    Member

    @Phyreblade: There’s a balance between order and chaos that needs to be maintained. Too much order and you stagnate. Too much chaos and everything falls apart.



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