Comments on: church and state

By: nyokki

nyokki — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 16:49:52 +0000

@natedog: Why didn't I think of that?

By: natedog

natedog — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 13:04:25 +0000

AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA AFRICA

By: nyokki

nyokki — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 07:36:48 +0000

Oops, forgot the link to Willowbrook.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willowbrook_State_School

By: nyokki

nyokki — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 07:35:56 +0000

This is why we have to make people politically equal, because if we do not, there will be people who live in filth and poverty. This can and does happen in America too. Staten Island, NY was home to Willowbrook State School, a psychiatric hospital/institution for the mentally unstable and retarded, basically they were dumped there and never seen by the public. It was finally closed down after Geraldo Rivera did an expose on it (It's what catapulted him to stardom).

By: nyokki

nyokki — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 06:32:06 +0000

@Phyreblade: Yeah I know. I thought I was making it easier by stating it that way, like 1+1=0, figuring people would catch on.

By: Phyreblade

Phyreblade — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 05:01:44 +0000

@nyokki: Did you mean modulo 4, or base4? In a quarternary numeral system I believe 1+3=10. But I’m being anal retentive…

I agree with your premise. Even with something as universal/ ubiquitous as mathematics, not everyone works in the same base.

People tend to forget that equality means different things to different people. The devil is indeed in the details…

By: nyokki

nyokki — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 02:14:43 +0000

@the3g_ipwn: 1+3=0 if your using mod4 (or base4) instead of mod10. There are certainly uses for working in other than mod10. In computer programming, we use mod2 (binary) and mod16 (hexadecimal). So, depending on what you want to do, different circumstances lead to different ways of working w/ the same numbers. The simple way is almost always the brutal way and I really do think that we can find ways to accomplish political equality w/out leaving people in the dirt. Nuances are very real and should be payed attention to.

By: dieAntagonista

dieAntagonista — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 01:52:38 +0000

@ieattime20:
Yes I agree. But I’m still not sure about this part ‘Black people started out behind in the race’. I’m not so sure about the significance of this.
You have also to consider the fact that there are only very few 100% black people in America. They’re for the most part all mixed. White, Mexican, Indian and so on.
If you really want to get into genetics and all that.
But yeah either way, we’re definitely on the same page.

By: ieattime20

ieattime20 — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 00:04:36 +0000

@dieAntagonista: No, to an extent, you’re absolutely right. But statistics, especially statistics over a long period of time (knocking out the chance of high-variance randomness), do imply the existence of cause. Unless you find some sort of link between race and economic performance (as a factor of that race inherently, sort of like the ‘laziness’ example) you have to conclude that there is an ‘unnatural’ economic bias and, presumably, figure out what the cause of that bias is.

My posit is that it’s because poor propagates poor, for the reasons you state and many others. Black people started out behind in the race, after emancipation, and, treating them completely equally (as we almost certainly do a good job of now, but definitely not in the past), they’re STILL going to be punished for starting out behind, even today. Unless your reaction is “well, dog eat dog world”, like a Libertarian (which is, in a sense, valid), the desire to remedy this somehow and ‘catch them up’ to the race should appeal to your sense of fairness, at the expense of your sense of ‘equality’ (they have to be treated different, at least for a time, to make progress).

But you’re right, it’s not inherent to their race. ANY group of humans who experience racism experience the same pattern of the widespread proliferation of poverty, crime, and pathological pop culture.

By: dieAntagonista

dieAntagonista — Wed, 10 Dec 2008 23:43:55 +0000

There is no scientific evidence that black people are by nature more lazy than any other race. To prove that you would have to show me at least one peer-reviewed source. (Do i really have to mention the athletic black stereotype who runs faster than any white person?)
I’ll tell you what it is though, when people grow up in the same neighbourhoods, talking to the same people, living the same lifestyle, chances are they will turn out exactly like the people before them.
This has nothing to do with race, and little with genetics.

The majority of black people are poor? Statistics like that are almost completely irrelevant. It doesn’t say anything about those people’s race, but only points out facts about a certain group of people in a certain area. Those people could be black, white or purple it doesn’t matter.