Torture FOIA Request

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    Karatesaurus RexborandiFlyingMantisShrimpgodnarokBluepanda Recent comment authors
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    wizardoffahz
    Member

    what?

    Pants
    Member

    its a request for inquest into torture methods, and ironically, the only things they didnt block out were ‘these enhanced techniques include:’ and ‘water board’. i can imagine them beating some poor POW with a pool floatie, then making him eat it.

    TrayShadix
    Member

    That’s why the powers that be gave us the List of Torture Methods and Devices on Wikipedia…including Waterboard. It’s not…by any means…the worst.

    Exacerbate
    Member

    I say we behead all those jizzlamic fucks.

    gor
    Member

    What we are calling torture and what is really torture is two different things. Drilling someone’s kneecap off with a wood drill bit is torture, letting a terrorist thug think he is going to drown (or not letting him sleep) is not.

    The Matrix: Rebooted
    Member

    Hey gor, you have a girlfriend, wife or daughter? How about we waterboard her and you can explain how its not really torture.

    st_judas
    Member

    Waterboarding, according to Wikipedia: “consists of immobilizing a person on their back with the head inclined downward—known as the Trendelenburg position—and pouring water over the face and into the breathing passages. Through forced suffocation and inhalation of water, the subject experiences the process of drowning and is made to believe that death is imminent.” According to Wiktionary, torture’s definition is: “To intentionally force someone to experience agony.” Agony, to further clarify, denotes: “- Pain so extreme as to cause writhing or contortions of the body” or “- The last struggle of life; death struggle.” The stated point of water-boarding is… Read more »

    Exacerbate
    Member

    Wowwowowowowowowowowow st_judas.
    The Constitution states that WE have freedom from “cruel and unusual punishment”, not those stupid, pig fucking, self-exploding Islamic fuckheads. I’m sick of people feeling bad for and tolerating these assholes (this goes for all religions). Since when the hell is interrogation NOT effective? It’s basically all that works. God, you make me sick, you stupid, bleeding-heart, liberal hippie. Normal liberals are fine, but when you turn into a gigantic vagina like st_judas, it REALLY pisses me off.

    st_judas
    Member

    I have to admit that my last point (the constitution’s applicability to non-citizens) is the frequent subject of debate. The 14th Amendment is interpreted by some to limit the scope of the intended protections, though it seems to me that it only limits jurisdiction of the federal government, not other freedoms guaranteed therein. “Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens… Read more »

    General X
    Member

    “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal” You know what that is from Exacerbate? The Declaration of Independence. Right there in the U.S.’s birth certificate it says that all men are created equal. Where I was born makes no difference according to this. But then again what did these guys know, right? Oh, and torture works all the time. You can get the guy to say whatever you want him to say. Hell, they will admit to being from Alpha – frickin – Centauri if it means the pain and agony will stop. If… Read more »

    SuperJay
    Member

    There is a bomb in a building with 300 people in it. Only one terrorist knows the location and means of disarming it. As an agent, you’ve repeatedly asked nicely and received so far only a laugh in your face.

    What do you do hotshot? What do you do?

    For those that are so against torturing another human being, either come up with a solution that will produce results, or just admit that allowing people to die so you won’t have to “lower yourself to their level” is just a bit to self righteous.

    gor
    Member

    Reboot are you truly a dumbass?

    As a person who went through SERE school I can tell you water-boarding is scary, but not that bad, and if my girfriend/wife/daughter was caught planting bombs in supermarkets and scare her would save lives by disclosing other bombs, than I would understand.

    Tony
    Member

    @ gor and SuperJay These situations have never come up. Intelligence and interrogation officers have admitted that they have never faced a ‘ticking timebomb’ experience like the 2 or 3 per 24 espisode. Now, if there really were a ticking timebomb, I do believe our law enforcement would do whatever it took to get that information, and would probably be granted retroactive immunity (as they should be). Legalizing this for the “just in case we need to use it” will result in us always using it. You will see crack dealers being waterboarded to give up the names of their… Read more »

    st_judas
    Member

    Way to resort to ad hominem attacks, Exacerbate. If you’d bothered to actually READ the constitution, you’d know that it doesn’t limit freedom to only ‘mercans like yourself, but rather extends the inherent rights to every human being. If reading the constitution makes me a “liberal hippie”, then I suppose you have me there. If that makes you sick, perhaps you should go have a visit to an authoritarian country where they don’t have such values. I hear Myanmar is lovely this time of year. @SuperJay: The professional interrogators keep repeating this, but armchair generals refuse to listen. Men who… Read more »

    FlyingMantisShrimp
    Member

    It’s easy for people to throw around phrases like “we’re only lowering ourselves to their level” when they haven’t, in person, had any experience with the sort of detainees in question. While SuperJay’s scenario is, at best, far fetched and extremely Hollywoodesque, he did make somewhat of a good point. Allow me to paint a more realistic scenario. A successful raid has yielded the capturing a high value target(HVT for short). This man has been confirmed by numerous, human intelligent sources as being a leader of a cell heavily involved with attacks on American soldiers, their allies, and Iraqi civilians.… Read more »

    Jaypeezy
    Member

    OMG! Intelligent discussion in my internets?!

    st_judas
    Member

    @FMS: I actually took the time to read your entire post, as I care about this issue and I believe the other respondents do as well; yourself included. I don’t have any love for those who would use “terror” to obtain their political objectives. Quite the reverse. I love my country, and for that reason I deeply distrust those in power. I believe it is the duty of a patriot to always question, to hold our government and ourselves to the highest standards possible, and if necessary to use force in defending against our enemies. So it sounds like what… Read more »

    Tony
    Member

    @ FMS Yeah, a lot of people at home have no idea what kind of scumbags live in Iraq and Afghanistan. We don’t have the resources or training downrange to conduct expensive and intensive investigations for each insurgent we capture. So we usually incarcerate them for a short time before we are forced to turn them loose where they’ll just attack us again. That sucks that the interrogator got shafted. But that’s a real tough situation. If command doesn’t take action against the soldier, they are saying that they condone that type of interrogation. Since we are already under a… Read more »

    Pants
    Member

    this internets are too long

    FlyingMantisShrimp
    Member

    @Tony
    Yeah, that’s basically what I’m getting at. These decisions aren’t usually made by just some sadistic psychopath wearing a giant, rubber apron who’s lured some college kids to a butcher shop for humans. People don’t realize how crappy a situation servicemen and women get put into over there.

    @Judas
    I’m not saying that because they do worse, our own actions are excusable. I’m just trying to give you a different perspective on the situation. I agree that violent interrogation really only goes so far. That much has pretty much been proven. Sometimes, however, it has its own place. And I emphasize *sometimes*.

    FlyingMantisShrimp
    Member

    Btw, Tony, how much longer until you get to leave summer camp?

    To hold you over, I’d like for you to picture the most awesome, foamy headed beer you can. In a nice, big, and frosty mug. Mmmm.

    Tony
    Member

    I got a couple weeks, tops. Just waiting on our replacements to get here. And I get to go back to Germany, where the beer is not piss water! (most German beer) Seems like I just got here!

    st_judas
    Member

    You guys are making me thirsty. Mmmm beer.

    st_judas
    Member

    BTW, Tony and FMS, I appreciate your taking the time to actually respond instead of just hurling insults, invective, and hypotheticals at me. I’d love to hoist a beer with either of you. In the meantime, Tony, I’ll have one or three for you. =)

    Alec Dalek
    Member

    I hope you all enjoy your government, ‘mericans.

    Bluepanda
    Member
    Bluepanda

    @st_judas your intellegent and on the interents wtf? @FMS You sir are missing one very important point. You make it sound as if ticking time bomb situations are necessary because evil pieces of shit will always be trying to blow us up. How about we avoid pissing them off to begin with? I mean the guy you mention in your IED story was probably perfectly normal until an off course JDAM killed his whole family for a pointless war. Now before you say we are giving Iraq freedom how about we look at Afghanistan? One oppressive regime has simply been… Read more »

    FlyingMantisShrimp
    Member

    @Bluepanda I’m pretty sure you completely misconstrued everything I typed. Did I not admit to torture being largely ineffective? I’m glad that you know so much about JDAMs and how we just slaughter families wholesale with them, bluepanda. Because, you’re right, every insurgent over there is only fighting us because we’ve killed their family. If you think that your average Iraqi was “normal” before we got there and they’re only like this because of something we’ve done, you’re seriously mistaken. And if you really think Afghanistan is in better shape now with Karzai in charge than they were when the… Read more »

    Bluepanda
    Member
    Bluepanda

    Lol @FSM I am well aware how women were treated under the Taliban. But you say things are better off under Karzai? In Kabul perhaps… But everywhere else there he means nothing. The rest of the country is controlled by warlords who are in many cases as bad as the Taliban. The added extra is now the people have the added concern of some warlord attacking their village and all the trimmings that come with having a ruling class who puts their own power before the people. Btw feel free to look into how well civic services are operating there… Read more »

    FlyingMantisShrimp
    Member

    Bluepanda, your ability to completely misinterpret everything I type never ceases to amaze me. The opium trade has *always* been a massive business in Afghanistan. It’s practically their cash crop. It’s not like America invaded and then all of a sudden they were just like “HEY GUYS, LET’S GROW DRUGS!!!!” Opium has ALWAYS been a very big part of Afghanistan’s people. This isn’t some new fad. The opium trade isn’t just growing because people don’t have other options. It’s their cash crop, and it always has been. I never said anything about Afghanistan during the war with the Soviet Union.… Read more »

    godnarok
    Member

    A bigger picture is being missed here; Bin laden was paid by the CIA to set up his operations (thru the BCCI and Saudi go-betweens). Also, those “Islamic” militants are only pretending to be Islamic. They are mind-controlled (in the style of a pseudo-religious mk-ultra -like program) disposable killers who get their pins pulled and thrown in whatever direction their nihilist commanders (who are mostly british agents or the puppets of British agents) choose. This whole “war” against terror is a concoction, part of a massive destabilization plan the NWO is orchestrating from BOTH sides to make us hate our… Read more »

    FlyingMantisShrimp
    Member

    “….destabilization plan the NWO is orchestrating…”

    New World Order? Scott Hall and Kevin Nash are behind this all!?!?!? And Hulkamania!?!?!?

    borandi
    Member

    I’m not going to talk about this issue, but I’d like to say that I’m completely amazed at this thread. The majority of people can type using capital letters and proper sentence structure. Kudos! I never thought I’d see it on the interweb, especially MCS. My life is complete =D

    Karatesaurus Rex
    Member

    much agreement, this is an amazingly well spoken debate, kudos to everyone in this, except for exacerbate, you’re an idiot. Behead all those jizzlamic fucks? Wow… This has always been a difficult one for me, my kneejerk reaction to anything happening in Iran/Iraq is always back and forth. I’m second generation American born Assyrian (Nestoro-chaldean Catholic or Eastern Orthodox Catholic), you can see why Assyrians aren’t very popular in the Mid. East, my family is actually from Iraq and I still have family there. So I know that some of these unfortunate incidents (civ casualties) might have taken another of… Read more »



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