patriotism by any means

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    45 Responses to patriotism by any means

    1. Has he broken ritual? But but but confucius say a king should rule by ritual alone!!!

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    2. The rule is that you are supposed to stand at attention respectfully. Remove a hat, if you have it on. There’s nothing about a hand over your heart, that’s for the pledge, which is not what is depicted in this picture.

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    3. Nevermind the flag is behind these dumbasses. As long as the black dude’s covering the junk, it’s all good.
      Pit, put the monster away.

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    4. I find that suspicious, CMoorehead. Typically American law classifies by type and punishment, none of which is listed (ie, there is no means describing by which this could be taken to a court of law). It’s also US code, which means it is only law which can be presented before a court if confirmed by United States Statues at Large. Otherwise it’s all “officially unofficial” and ceremonial.

      Check this out:
      frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=browse_usc&docid=Cite:+36USC301
      At the bottom of the official version of what you linked is a series of cross references to existing statutes. I’m leaving it up to you to research them one by one and see if any can be presented before a court, etc.

      You may be right but you have not submitted sufficient evidence.

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    5. Caio

      As to “Typically American law classifies by type and punishment”, you are incorrect. If this were the case, then all criminal hearings would only have one session, the determination of guilt. However, the determination of guilt is only the first part (not sure the technical term, but you gt the idea, verdicts of guilty or not guilty are applied at the end of this trial). Then, once a verdict off guilty is applied, a sentencing hearing is held. If there were a flow chart of crime to punishment, as you suggest, then the second part would be an irrelevant step in the american judiciary system.

      As to it being code, not law, i see where you are coming from. However, what body constitutes the states at large? the voting body (oi poloi)? no. the electoral college? possibly. The House of Congress and the House of representatives? Most likely. When taking into account who these people would be brought before and by whom, do you not think that before such judicial action is begun the plaintiffs would carry through and codify into law these social requirements? For who would carry through on calling such a person to terms? Certainly not one such as I, for to fight a legal battle on such scale, large bank accounts would be needed. That’s why I have my senators and congressmen/women.

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    6. It is not a law, it is a custom, and it varies from different parts of the country. In Illinois where I was educated in the public education system (the god fearing bible belt area) we were told to cover our heart for the pledge (which is similar when making oaths of other type when there isn’t a religious document around) and stand at attention, salute if you’re in uniform, or remove your hat if you’re wearing one during the playing of the national anthem. If you dont beleive that its not ok to observe the national anthem of the United State of America without a hat over your heart just watch a choir sing it, no hands over hearts.

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    7. It’s kind of like that whole “I’m not saluting those military putzs that fly around with me on Air Force 1.” that Bill had going back in his day in office. Fuck tradition, fuck respect, fuck America, that’s what I read into Bills manerisms back then, and that’s what I’m seeing in the pic above. Fuck Obama.

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    8. Last I checked, Obama was becoming disillusioned with displays of patriotism… seeing as the best hiding place for a crooked politician is wrapped in the flag.

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    9. Point well taken, regardless, I believe it is now common practice. Furthermore, this blokes running for President, and while the lot on stage are covering their hearts, I would think you wouldn’t want to be the odd man out. In any case it looks pretty damn damaging to me. I for one feel he cares more his own beliefs rather than the customs of the country he wants to lead. This brings us to the way countries bend over and force change of their own people’s culture as to not offend the immigrant pricks that chose to come to that country. Let’s take the Mexicans, they come to the states most illegally, demand welfare and refuse to learn English. In turn companies, state and governments change, amend, or add Spanish to menus, signs, documents, the list goes on. Here’s how it should be, you want to move to another country, live and work there, become a native; learn the $%*@ language, accept their customs or get the F@#$ OUT!!!

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    10. @LordPartyTime: Point taken. I’d probably make a shit lawyer, because it all confuses me a bit. As just a person, I’m split on this, really, because I do believe in the importance of tradition, but I dislike the ideologue patriot politician more than the disrespectful one. He still seems like the lesser of multiple evils to me.

      @CMoorehead: You remind me of a Young Chief Joseph.

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    11. Only Magnus can save this thread now, with extreme obscenities.

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    12. Ciao, it turns my mind in circles, too, trying to keep up with half the proceedings the law system uses, lol.

      On the learn english or GTFO, i completely agree with you, CMoorehead. And if I can be accused of taking the stance of a Native American, then i god-damned well better be able to kill and scalp me some effing illegals. THAT, my friends, is taking a stance. im not gonna let my country and my economy and my god blessed american flag take second place to a red, white and green stripe, spanish, and a freaking taco. Anybody ever been to the slums of mexico? Shanty houses built of discarded freight pallets and rotting tar paper. Thats what they did to their economy and now they’re trying to run away from it because we have something better than they did. I’m all for them coming here and working, but they’ve got to follow the same guidlines we do.

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    13. Stupid Yanks getting their pledge of allegiance confused with standing for the national anthem. Duh!

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    14. In all seriousness, if this is what people care about, whether someone follows some archaic unenforced tradition, and not what ideas that person has, then you are all doomed.

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    15. Alec, it’s especially important when that one individual is trying to become the head of state where such archaic unenforced traditions indicate loyalty and continued remembrance of the very reasons for the creation of the state. Were I to try and become the president of the National Riflemans Association, yet thought that guns are bad, would i be likely to get elected? hells no. If I petitioned to be granted admin rights on MCS, but made it clear that i thought that anybody with an opinion opposite mine ought to be banned, would i succeed and become an admin? Very clearly no. Were i to be, THEN we’d all be doomed, because when people are in a position to champion beliefs, and those beliefs are not theirs, then everyone they support, everyone that depends on this figurehead, is skrewd.

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    16. i just love the guy that is looking straight at the camera. duuur cheese?

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    17. Regardless of whether you need to put your hand on your heart or not, it doesn’t change the fact he is the only bloke on stage not doing so. Is it important? Maybe not, however his lack in doing so may be the tip of an iceberg of some hidden agenda, if you want to go that route. Maybe he got high before the meeting and zoned out during the whole thing. I don’t give a damn either way, there’s no way in Hell this guy will ever be President. Doing what he did sure as hell didn’t help his cause.

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    18. Aktualy, I think Obama is being more patriotic than every one else in the pic. That whole tradition is flawed. Srsly. Which is more important to you. Your heart? Or your little man/family jewels? Think about it… 😛

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    19. Ahh, i see your point Phyre. So i guess i’m being patriotic multiple times a day!

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    20. I see what you did there, same here brother…in fact brb

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    21. well then my girlfried just got done being patriotic then

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    22. How about a little respect for the flag, the Physical embodiment of the nation. Put your heels together, point your toes at a 45degree angle, pit your fists by your side, stand tall, take a moment while the anthem and pledge is recited to think about how monumentous of an office you have the possibility of assuming. None of those candidates deserve to be the President of the U.S.A. The only person in the race who ever sacrificed anything for the Stars and Bars is John McCain, I bet you he stands at attention when that anthem and pledge is played.

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    23. McCain blows.

      he’s a troll that will make america a bigger asshole on the world scene.

      1000 year wars that can’t be paid for.

      boooo!

      McCain reminds me that old TV mini series called ‘V’

      en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V_%28TV_series%29

      his cranium always makes me think of that scene where the baby alien comes out of that chick’s tummy with that big creepy mouth

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    24. I can’t believe it. You folks really do care more about stupid shit like this than what the man has to say. That just seems so… backwards. Your politics seem to be more about destroying the competition than actually putting forth new ideas. Would you stomp on a flower just because it grew in the wrong colour?

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    25. @njch, the stars and bars were the confederate flag, you saying he fought in the civil war? Stars and stripes, thats the US flag. Regardless of that slip, its not on sacrifice alone or respect for the flag that warrants someone worthy of being president.

      @alec: by the same token that their attitude alone does not merit them worthy of the presidency, neither can they be president without the proper attitude and respect for this nations flag and all it represents. Your analogy to a flower can be taken many ways; 1: mere color alone. I’m not going to refrain from voting for him because he’s a flower of the wrong color (or a person of a different color, for that matter). 2: take shakespeare’s line about roses “a rose by any other name smells as sweet”, as well as (from i dunno who) “if it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck and swims like a duck, its probably a duck.” So no matter what you name him, or he names himself, his actions name him true. You can’t hide his disrespect for the flag and the countless brave souls who have died defending it behind “he doesnt want to sully his name by going along with everyone else”. Hell, i dont want to sully my lungs by breathing air, because serial rapists and murderers do the same thing. Just because it kinda sounds good does not mean its a good move, or a smart move. hell, it might even kill ya.

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    26. Are you serious? I think he’s being more patriotic than anyone on that stage, he’s standing up for his beliefs even though he has so much to lose. If you don’t think that that is the american ideal you might want to go talk to some WW2 vets. It’s an outdated tradition that is near meaningless these days. Most people don’t stand for the pledge because they believe it, they stand because they get looked at funny if they don’t and because they’ve been taught to.

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    27. His belief is such that respecting this nations history and the blood shed by this nations soldiers protecting and ensuring this nations freedom and democracy is bad, or going to be bad for his image? That belief is not one that should be held by someone that is going to lead this nation for 4-8 years. I’ve talked to WW2 vets. And Korean vets. And Vietnam vets. You know what they respect? The Flag. What it stands for. This nation. Defending, understanding and LOVING this nation. Not some pansy that thinks he’s showing he’s different because he doesnt salute and give respect to the men and women of the current and all past armed forces, the sacrifices they’ve made, and the freedom they’ve ensured. Yes, he has the right to do this, hell, they died and gave him this right, but that does not mean i want him to be my president with that attitude.

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    28. And people that stand and salute just because they’re gonna get looked at funny are not people whom i would trust in any situation. Yes, he is letting us know what to expect from him, and for his truthfulness i laud him, but i do not want to follow him. Understanding and accepting someone’s choice is NOT the same as agreeing with them or wanting them to be my representative to the world. People who honor the flag, the pledge and the anthem because its what they’ve always done are not doing it for the right reasons, nor are the people who are doing it for fear of ridicule.There is a surge of joy in my heart knowing that I can salute an icon with so much meaning. One must not feel that joy or pride in the flag or anthem or pledge, but for you to be a leader of THIS nation, you must salute and pay homage to that icon, that history, that legacy.

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    29. dear “lordpartytime,”

      loving your nation, hmm? that is a misguided and stereotypical view of patriotism, especially in america. here, our founding fathers were the rebels – our nation is all about changing the government when it gets out of hand. it is not about loving your nation and its leaders regardless of what they do. no, that is not patriotism, it’s blind faith.

      if you can’t see a need for change in the running of our current government, you are simply in a sad state of denial. and as far as our soldiers are concerned, killing in the name of one’s nation doesn’t make the killing justified or noble. perhaps you should think about all of the innocent lives that our soldiers have ended instead of the ones that they’ve lost.

      but you’re right. you can support whomever the hell you want and do whatever the hell you want and its fine with me. after all, this is america. we used to believe in freedom, and i still do.

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    30. And now that my brothers had his words.

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    31. America is the rebel country. We were founded by people who broke with tradition and died for what they believed was a better system. They were tired of dealing with the old tradition of “For king and Country” This country is not what deserves our respect, this country is a plot of dirt on a ball of dirt floating in space. The flag is not what deserves respect, it’s a piece of cloth. The ideas are what we should hold in reverence. Not what we attached them to. If you talked to those vets like you say you did then you would know that they respect the ideas the flag is standing for not the flag itself. I’m sure he respects the people who died for us and I know that because he isn’t afraid to stand up for his beliefs that he is going to be a strong leader and that he’s an honest leader surrounded by liars. I rarely stand for the pledge not because I think I’m some how disrespecting all the men and women who made this country but because the country no longer reflects the ideas that the pledge and the flag stand for. Do you think that the founding fathers would be proud of what this counrty has become? Scandal and slander, fast food and school shootings, some many people are blindly faithful in the country even though it so clearly isn’t what it was supposed to be.

      I agree that if someone stands for the pledge because they always have or because they don’t want to be criticized than they aren’t doing it for the right reason. I don’t know how to properly word the rest of my feelings on this so for now I’ll stop.

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    32. Since magnus isn’t here.

      Are you people fucking retarded? For one, who cares? “Zomg he will b a bad presydant becuz hit arm wasn’t ovur his heart”. what the fuck?

      Also in the video on snopes reboot linked to like no one in the crowd was doing that. And most people agree that “Law” is outdated, and really you just need to show respect to the flag. And if you really are going to follow that law it also requires you to “Stand at attention facing the flag” Since none of them were actually facing the flag, everyone loses.

      If you seriously think obama will be a bad president based on the fact his arm wasn’t in the air one time then you are a fucking moron and probably voted for bush.

      In any event this was back in september 2007, no one fucking cares anymore.

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    33. Also, I really hate to say it but: They’ve got weird expressions, and they’re in front of some big giant thing in the middle of a field. And the woman’s face exactly matches the line of the flag, while the guy is looking straight ahead as if at me. That’s kind of Fellinish or even Dalish in a creepy way don’t you think? And those flowers are just like…. there? In the front and to the side? This looks like some kind of nightmare i would have.

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    34. I get it now. The other three are groping their boobs and Obama doesn’t have any. Diabeetus is right he is pretty unamerican.

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    35. That’s how I salute the flag. /shrug/ Another reason I could never go into politics.

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    36. I never cover my heart during the American National Anthem. I usually cover my ears.

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    37. Thank you Kero. I’m glad somebody said it.

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    38. lol@ all the people with the lengthy responses… IT’S HAND PLACEMENT. My whole family never places their hands on their hearts, they just do whatever with them, and they’re all military guys and girls… This one should make the front page!

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    39. @Ando, I wish I’d thought of that. Now I know what to do the next time we’re playing an american team in Lacrosse.

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    40. Once in Catholic school, we got a new principal that made us say the National Anthem at the beginning of every day, via intercom. And then some girl got suspended for not saying it, and then there was a big controversy because some of the parents and the Bishop thought it was overboard. He also pointed out that our first loyalty as Catholics was to Church, not to country, but we were only required to pray on special occasions. Then the Bishop got the principal fired! :OOO

      Remembering this chapter of my youth, I’m going to have to point out that this controversy is stupid: If a conservative Bishop feels that National Anthem ritual is too conservative, it probably is. If you can out-conservative Rome, it’s quite likely you’re a fucktard.

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    41. I think it’s kind of weird that people think that whether or not someone salutes the flag (in one way or another) actually means anything whatsoever as to how fit he is to lead the country.

      Don’t believe me? Look up some videos/pictures of the national anthem being played in Dubya’s presence. He’s got his hand on his heart every damn time.

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    42. At least he didn’t have his hands down his pants.

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